We had a full schedule with soccer games and whatnot yesterday and so I found myself in a tough situation. The only mass still available last night was the 7PM at a local church. So it was either go to the 7pm or miss mass. I went. I think I made the wrong choice.
I assiduously avoid my local parish because, well because of Fr. Frank. Fr. Frank drives me crazy. Why? Well, as it happens I had a camera in my pocket from soccer and I took it out to shoot some video during mass. It is a little grainy, but no matter. Just listen to the audio and it will all make sense. I added a little music just for fun.
So watch the video and tell me if going or missing was the greater sin.
October 20, 2008 at 10:37 pm
I agree that Patrick should go to Confession…but probably not for this.
October 20, 2008 at 10:49 pm
Ha, Ha! Enough said!
October 20, 2008 at 11:34 pm
A couple of things-
1. I totally understand your frustration. I hate ‘campfire Mass’ where all of a sudden forms are broken left and right.
2. As far as standing at Consecration – I think this is actually one of the new norms that we’re supposed to be putting in place. Our parish tried to conform but has kind of given up, and honestly, I know just how much I need to be on my knees. But I think it’s actually from the new norms. I could, of course, be mistaken.
3. I am not going to suggest confession or judge your charity. However, I do take issue with a couple of things on the video:
a. Posting someone’s full name on the internet without their knowledge and consent is inappropriate. I wouldn’t want someone to do it to me, and the one time someone did, entirely well-intentioned, I was very uncomfortable. Public Mass or not, it doesn’t matter.
b. The classification of “different” as a bad thing bothers me. Of course we have the GIRM, and I’m not suggesting any violation or abuse of it is in any way acceptable. But we are the only church that actually has the breadth that different is okay – you can’t come across two more different people than Joan of Arc and Martin of Tours, but they are both our saints. I am wary of making the Church seem so narrow, as if we do not understand that there are differences in paths to holiness. Also, using ‘different’ in that way makes us look very bigoted and narrow-minded, even though I realise that is not your intention, nor is it true.
I am sorry, however, that you got pushed in to that Mass. What I want to know is why you got pushed out of that parish by the bishop before the liturgical abuses did. That’s plainly ridiculous.
~Nzie
October 20, 2008 at 11:57 pm
For those sitting in the lofty combox judgment seat, get over yourself!
I live on Long Island and I know who Fr. Frank is. Putting his name on the Internet is so bad, this guy has a TV show on the diocesan TV network Telecare for crying out loud! He is a celebrity!
This priest does what he does and should be called on it. I am happy for the video. Maybe it will make a difference, nothing else has.
A Long Islander
October 21, 2008 at 12:33 am
“Posting someone’s full name on the internet without their knowledge and consent is inappropriate….
But we are the only church that actually has the breadth that different is okay – you can’t come across two more different people than Joan of Arc and Martin of Tours, but they are both our saints.”
Sweetie- you just posted someone’s full name on the internet without their permission. If someone is a public figure, such as a priest who dares orthodox folks to try to stop his obviously innappropriate behavior he deserves to get called on it on the same-said internet.
I follow along in the 1962 missal by praying along the best I can in the proper order, squeezing in many prayers during all the “free time” while the priest sits during the Offetory and while all the EEMs are dancing around the altar before the Consecration. It is important to me to pray for the dead and to ask the Saints to pray for us. Also I pray one of the litanies in the back of the missal after receiving Communion. Keeps my mind and eyes occupied rather than getting upset at all the chomping of Hosts and casual dress. I figure if they can abuse the liturgy to the level shown in this video, I can stem the tide, at least with my own family.
October 21, 2008 at 1:17 am
Just my 2c on the whole “uncharitable” thing:
I don’t think this is at all uncharitable. Redemptionis Sacramentum has something to say about this whole issue:
[183.] In an altogether particular manner, let everyone do all that is in their power to ensure that the Most Holy Sacrament of the Eucharist will be protected from any and every irreverence or distortion and that all abuses be thoroughly corrected. This is a most serious duty incumbent upon each and every one, and all are bound to carry it out without any favouritism.
To my mind, when complaints through official channels are rebuffed, it is the duty of the faithful to point to the elephant in the room, and not to worry if this makes a few delicate souls feel a little squeamish.
Far too many of us are imbued with the whole “Father is always right, even when he’s wrong, and to say he’s wrong is uncharitable” mentality when correcting those who err is actually a spiritual work of mercy.
October 21, 2008 at 1:24 am
nzie,
You are wrong about standing for the consecration, I checked the new GIRM at the USCCB website:
“In the dioceses of the United States of America, they should kneel beginning after the singing or recitation of the Sanctus until after the Amen of the Eucharistic Prayer, except when prevented on occasion by reasons of health, lack of space, the large number of people present, or some other good reason. Those who do not kneel ought to make a profound bow when the priest genuflects after the consecration. The faithful kneel after the Agnus Dei unless the Diocesan Bishop determines otherwise
October 21, 2008 at 1:25 am
A few things:
1) Lee, Fr. Zuhlsdorf has written about writing to Bishops and the CDW at http://wdtprs.com/blog/2008/10/how-to-write-to-the-holy-see-about-liturgical-abuses-or-anything-else/ in which he says “Don’t quote Church documents at them. They know what the rules are.” Just a pointer to any writing a letter.
2) Dcs, I thought proper matter, form, and intention were necessary for a valid sacrament. Would not leavened bread be improper matter therefore an invalid sacrament? Still we don’t know it was leavened bread.
3) Patrick, the church’s lack of kneeler is no excuse to not kneel. I’ve knelt on carpet, tile, grass, and asphalt when necessary. (Yes, the outdoor mass was approved; the archbishop was there.)
4) I firmly believe that all that have posted in this thread are sinners and should seek reconciliation with God as soon as possible.
October 21, 2008 at 1:35 am
phy1729
Re your point (2):
You are partially right about matter and form.
The correct matter for a valid Eucharist is wheat bread and grape wine.
According to Can 924:
Can. 924 §1. The most holy eucharistic sacrifice must be offered with bread and with wine in which a little water must be mixed.
§2. The bread must be only wheat and recently made so that there is no danger of spoiling.
§3. The wine must be natural from the fruit of the vine and not spoiled.
That’s all you need for correct matter.
Now, Can. 926, says: According to the ancient tradition of the Latin Church, the priest is to use unleavened bread in the eucharistic celebration whenever he offers it.
Leavened bread is used in the East, unleavened bread in the Latin church, as a matter of tradition and discipline. An Eastern priest can use unleavened bread in an emergency, and vice versa. Leaven only goes to liciticy, not validity – otherwise Eastern Rite Masses would be invalid, which clearly they are not.
October 21, 2008 at 1:45 am
David, thanks for clearing that up.
October 21, 2008 at 2:17 am
my mistake on the new norms- they’ve been poorly followed through, and so I was relying on memory – I do know there was more standing than previously, but I’m just as glad to be on my knees for Consecration.
Kat, I appreciate your response, but I believe there is a difference between folks who have been with God for 500+ years and the living, and also the context – this is not, for instance, a scholarly essay in which someone is being cited or his view engaged.
I don’t really see this whole thing as a lack of charity, and even if it were, well, sometimes people have a right to be frustrated and to express it. My only caution regards posting someone’s name, whether it can be easily found or not.
—
someone else mentioned lighting.. there is something very off-putting about how little light there is. The ceiling panels also bug me, but that’s neither here nor there, as I know a nearby parish that has the upper sanctuary and then another in the basement for lower volume Masses (they are HUGE and have tons of weddings and funerals, so having ‘regular’ Masses downstairs frees up space). It shouldn’t be this dark, though- it’s not Easter Vigil and I see no candles.
~Nzie
October 21, 2008 at 3:40 am
Didn’t get a chance to read all of the comments or remember who said something about CCD.
Everyone should remember that you are NOT required to send your kids to CCD. Natural Law and Canon Law both state that PARENTS are the primary educators of children, not the CCD teachers or even the pastor!
If you’re concerned about un-orthodox CCD programs or awful liturgy, talk with the pastor first. If he is unresponsive, talk with the bishop (if possible). If he is unresponsive, flee to a safe haven if one is available. Remember, all of us have a canonical RIGHT to a properly celebrated liturgy.
So, don’t feel like you’re doing something wrong by not attending your geographical parish if your concerns are not even considered.
October 21, 2008 at 4:29 am
Patrick, since we used to live nearby, this parish was our “Last Chance Mass” if we had a busy Sunday. I stopped going because my children were starting to ask too many questions, and I hate to criticize a priest to them.
They especially minded that Fr Frank used the words ‘friends’ instead of disciples. I minded that he:
1. skips the creed on Sundays
2. skips the second reading on Sundays
3. Said in a homily once, “the only sin is that of intolerance”.
Fr. Frank is an example of a good hearted priest with poor formation. He does good work with youth, but tries too hard to be hip, when he’s just an aging hippie.
October 21, 2008 at 12:47 pm
That’s a church? Looks like a hotel meeting room to me! And, hey: nice pews!
Sadly, I think we’re all going to be paying for the 70s, 80s and 90s for a very long time…
October 21, 2008 at 4:23 pm
Sadly, I think we’re all going to be paying for the 70s, 80s and 90s for a very long time.
It takes longer to build up than it does to destroy. The real destruction of the Mass has its roots in the 1920s but it didn’t really get a whole lot of steam until the 1950s. There were probably more changes introduced in the 60s than in the 70s, 80s, and 90s combined. So – 43 years in the liturgical wasteland (dating from when Inter Oecumenici took effect) won’t be wiped out overnight. I think it will be at least a couple of generations before the post-Vatican II “reforms” of the liturgy are wiped away.
October 21, 2008 at 6:44 pm
I guess the real lesson here is that we shouldn’t tie up our Sundays with ‘soccer and whatnot’.
October 22, 2008 at 4:19 am
I think I sinned by watching this!
October 22, 2008 at 4:26 am
wow. I’ll end on a positive note.
I’ll continue to pray for my parish priests and their faithful obedience.
Looks like Fr. Frank could use our prayers as well.
amen!
October 23, 2008 at 1:45 am
I think your sound quality must have gone out while you were filming…I didn’t hear the bells ringing during the consecration. Might need a new camera.
Seriously, I feel your pain. I went to a NO parish earlier this month due to a logistical inconvenience. And yes, it just never gets “better”. I despise when priests run their parishes like feifdoms.