We should be happy about this, why?
Whether you know it or not, the next big political battle will be over immigration and it may be starting in just a matter of weeks.
For the record, I favor some aspects of immigration reform and I believe we are morally obligated to treat illegal immigrants humanely because they are, well, human. I also believe that the problem cannot just be laid at the feet of those that are here illegally as our country has willingly turned a blind eye for a long time because of the economic benefit. Due to this collective culpability, a path to some form of legalization should eventually be realized.
That said, any and all realistic immigration reform must start with securing our borders. Must. Must. Must. Only when the borders have been proven to be secured will I, as a voter, consider any path to legalization for those already here.
So, to the topic of the day. In Arizona, lawmakers are considering a law by which they will make illegal to be illegal — brought to you by the Dept. of Redundant Laws Dept. But here is the kicker, the legislation would require law enforcement officers to check the legal status of those they suspect are undocumented.
Those they suspect? Huh? Are they kidding? Those they suspect based on what? What happens if Jose Gomez, third generation Mexican American, goes for a stroll without his wallet? What then?
No no. This is America, law enforcement officials don’t just stroll up to a law abiding citizens and say “Papers, papers please.” Not here, never. It is not about them, it is about us.
Sorry, I prefer the “illegals” over the Gestapo, any day.
Let’s secure the border for real and this will cease to be a serious problem begging for really bad solutions. If we do that, then one day a police officer can walk up to Pedro Jimenez and when he says “Papers, papers please,” Pedro will sell him a newspaper because that is his legal job. Then together they can complain about the insanely high taxes, because that is the American thing to do.
April 21, 2010 at 9:16 pm
So, does this make you a "cafeteria Catholic" since you have apparently sided with your party and ideology against the Church?
April 21, 2010 at 9:19 pm
I've been on the receiving end of an illegal immigrant's criminal actions and been told by the police that the guy was long gone on his way back to Mexico and would likely never be arrested for what he'd done to me — how nice.
Secure the borders. Now. Walls, fences, guards, whatever. Make it easier to come here legally, and unappealing to come here illegally. And no more sanctuary cities. Sheesh.
April 21, 2010 at 10:20 pm
Patrick, I think most federal law enforcement, and some locals by extension already have authority to demand identification and proof of citizenship. That's how the border checks have always been legal. Your post made me think of the video with Cheech Marin called "Born in East LA" and I wouldn't vouch for a lot of the English spoken there or in the valley of south Texas. What do you think the obligation should be for a US citizen who knows somebody is illegal?
Anon: The teaching of the Church is that Countries have a right and responsibility to determine their borders and protect them. Don't just read the 1/2 that the p&j folks like to refer to. Illegal immigration is also bad for sending countries as well as the US.
April 21, 2010 at 11:03 pm
Anne-
I'm sure there's a joke about "render unto Cesar" lurking in this topic. ^.^
April 21, 2010 at 11:20 pm
I'd trade a hundred illegal Mexicans for one Joe Biden anyday.
April 22, 2010 at 2:18 am
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April 22, 2010 at 2:19 am
Patrick: How'd that 1986 amnesty law work out? Any "path to citizenship" will be about as effective.
Close the borders and deport illegals. It's as simple as that. And WHY does the Catholic Church have a hard time with even saying the word "illegal"?
April 22, 2010 at 2:19 am
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April 23, 2010 at 1:47 pm
OMG. I can't believe it when people who call themselves Christians start this fight. It sickens me.
In case you didn't know, there's a drug war going on in Mexico! No one wants to be in the middle of that! People are trying to escape from there with their lives because one of their kids looked at at a drug lord funny. They don't have the money to pay the thousands of dollars it takes to become legal here. Also, in Mexico they have to pay a fee to the police to keep their homes and businesses free from crime. If they can't pay, it doesn't matter why, they're free to the slaughter. The police turn a blind eye. The police are payed by the drug lords to do things like this. They're dirt poor in Tijuana, are being hunted by drug gangs, and we're not going to forgo the fee to get in to save their lives? They'll pay the taxes, it's the entrance fee that they want to avoid. It's expensive and they're basically on death row for being in the wrong place at the wrong time!
Not to mention that in San Diego, there's no one who will do the jobs that the illegal immigrants do, because the people who live here are too snobbish to do them themselves. Not only that, San Diego residents hold on to their wallets so tightly, especially since our state crashed, that the only people they hire are those who will take low payment. Everyone else jacked up their price 1000% in janitorial, construction, gardening, farming, etc. Again, only illegal immigrants will do those jobs, especially for the pay that people want to dish out because there's no money. And the reason I can say all of this is because I've lived in San Diego for about 20 years. I'm not just bunching everyone up due to stereotype, that's how it is here. We have so many farmers and contracters that they need those who they can pay cheaply for dirty jobs such as seeding, harvesting, cleaning out the gutters, cleaning out the broken down buildings that are too unsafe to go into, etc.
You want those jobs? Come to San Diego, line up at the Home Depot where the illegals do, and you'll be paid a few dollars a day, and won't even make ends meet, but it will be enough to barely feed your family for a night, and that's about it. Otherwise, that's where illegal immigrants come in.
These are the same jobs that the Africans, the Irish, the Scots, the Chinese, the Japanese, etc. were all brought here to do in the past. Except they were forced to. The Mexicans do these jobs willingly. No one complained then, other than when they had to see them outside of work. Since they did the work no one else would, no one cared unless they had to see them in a public place. The only things that have changed have been where the workers come from, their status as human and the attitudes towards their legality.
Just because they come from Mexico doesn't mean that they're criminals. They're human. They're trying to get by. They know a different culture than you do. But they're still God's children and deserve our respect and protection by helping them escape difficult situations like trying to run from the drug wars. There are those that are criminals, yes. But just because you happened to know several who were doesn't mean that all, or even the majority of them are.
How can you leave someone to live that kind of life? Being anti-amnesty is beyond wrong. It's unfair, and un-Christian.
April 23, 2010 at 2:24 pm
Hey jerk, don't flatter yourself about being the one who knows what's really going on and then tell me that no one will do the jobs that illegal immigrants do because we're all a bunch of snobs. You accuse us of painting all immigrants with the same broad brush, and then you do the same to Americans. Stop your unfair and un-Christian slanders and maybe you'll be taken more seriously.
April 23, 2010 at 2:26 pm
Just love it when folks act like because we're Christians– or even Catholics!– we somehow should never disagree. Now, which saint was it that punched another over a point of doctrine….?
Now, let's see….
Ah, those who murdered that rancher a few weeks back were from a country in the middle of a drug war, so it's OK.
How about the murders from before this drug war?
How do you explain that most illegals come here for a time then go back– what odd refugees! (Part of why "anchor babies" are so valuable– want to talk about treating someone as a means to an end?)
San Diego– and the rest of Cali, and must of the country– have been hiring illegals because it's cheaper for years. I offer as evidence the various laws that impose fines to make it less cheap; one big push was about 96 with the Washington orchards.
You want those jobs? Come to San Diego, line up at the Home Depot where the illegals do, and you'll be paid a few dollars a day, and won't even make ends meet, but it will be enough to barely feed your family for a night, and that's about it.
If we take under the counter jobs, we risk calling the law down on our heads. There's also the small problem that it is illegal, and we, as Christians, are supposed to care about that with just laws.
I was joking earlier, but the point is valid: we are to pay our taxes, and one of the things that makes illegals so inexpensive is that you don't have to pay taxes on them.
How can you leave someone to live that kind of life? Being anti-amnesty is beyond wrong. It's unfair, and un-Christian.
They want to ask for amnesty, GO FOR IT. There is a process, and it doesn't involve paying a couple of hundred dollars to be smuggled in to the country, leaving a trail of damage in your path.
Trying to claim that the long-running wave– for my entire life, the US has been having a problem will illegal Mexican immigrants– is somehow a result of the current flare up of the drug war is flatly dishonest. This assumes you don't know that there's been a slight downturn in illegals entering the country due to the economic downturn.
Trying to claim that a current economic downturn explains decades of tax evasion and exploitation of illegal workers is flatly dishonest.
Thus far, you have promoted violating the just laws of the land, including failure to pay taxes, and you have been at best ignorant if not flat out deceptive. Plus the dirty pool of questioning how "Christian" we are as you do so.
April 28, 2010 at 2:20 pm
Legal immigration should be made much easier. Quotas should be eliminated. Only security concerns should be obstacles to citizenship. Increase freedom in the open and legitimate "market" for migration and the "black market" will atrophy. After all, why would anyone accept the risks associated with black market exchanges when operating in legitimate market promises greater rewards with negligible risk?
April 28, 2010 at 2:57 pm
We're facing huge unemployment– we do NOT need more workers right now, especially not with the entitlements!
I'm all for fixing the immigration process; the cost alone of such ineffective paper-pushing is horrible.
April 28, 2010 at 3:44 pm
Nationalism/isolationism is an asinine position for any Catholic to take. Respect for human dignity – not just American dignity – demands that nobody be denied the opportunity to freely seek fruitful labor. From a Catholic perspective, no nation's people are more worthy of employment than any other. If folks are willing to accept the risks of illegally crossing the border and illegally working in the US, it's likely because the risks associated with not finding sustaining employment in Mexico (e.g., inability to house, clothe, and feed family) are worse. The solution most respectful of life, liberty, property, and dignity is easier legal immigration.
April 28, 2010 at 4:56 pm
Eric, I want there to be a LOT of legal immigration, but I don't think your absolutist logic is sound. We have the right and the duty to determine what level of immigration is right for our nation. There's hardly a soul on the continents of South America and Africa that wouldn't be better of in America – should we let them all in?
We're allowed to put out nation first for the same reason I'm allowed to put my family first. I will feed my family first. Then I will consider whether I can feed my neighbor. There's nothing xenophobic about that kind of prioritization.
April 28, 2010 at 5:44 pm
"There's hardly a soul on the continents of South America and Africa that wouldn't be better of in America – should we let them all in?"
Yes.
April 28, 2010 at 5:54 pm
Immigration – legal or not – would not be such a concern if we didn't have an unsustainable welfare state. We're going broke trying to pay for current entitlements and can't afford more or the same for vastly more people. I agree that legal immigration cannot realistically increased without cutting back on entitlements. Since I don't think charity is the proper realm of government, anyway, I don't have a problem with that.
April 28, 2010 at 8:12 pm
I see a small problem with your theory.
Once you let in a sizable portion of the third world population, and you make them legal, they are going to outnumber us.
Which means they can just vote to confiscate and divide up all our wealth.
Don't think it wouldn't happen. Because of the FAIRNESS!
April 29, 2010 at 1:49 am
The Church teaches that nations are able to make and enforce their own laws, unless inherently immoral. Requirements to enter are not inherently immoral.
Your solution is based on the false premise that all illegal aliens are only breaking the laws to feed their families.
May 5, 2010 at 3:39 pm
"Once you let in a sizable portion of the third world population, and you make them legal, they are going to outnumber us.
Which means they can just vote to confiscate and divide up all our wealth.
Don't think it wouldn't happen. Because of the FAIRNESS!"
This "us-them" mentality is more likely to push for the "revolution" you fear, more than actually letting them in and treating them like real human beings. In all actuality, your comment betrays undertones of bigotry (sadly, I couldn't think of a less abrupt term) that are at odds with our Catholic faith (but not hardline Republican politics…or libertarian politics, or whatever comeback you may provide). In reality, this immigration issue is more a pro-life issue than anything else, and as someone who undoubtedly is pro-life, I would hope you would support a more systematic and fair reform of immigration laws, rather than support this one. I'm proud of everyone who has spoken up about (and against) this law (including our own USCCB).
I sometimes think we let our pre-conceived (and distinctly American) political notions define how we view the faith. Lets face it-Catholicism is political, but its not beholden to a party line. Once it is, the faith become yet another idol.