There is a horror movie coming out called Case #39. This story, Proposition #39, is much much much scarier.
Proposition 39 coming out of the Special Assembly for the Middle East of the Synod of Bishops.
Propositio 39
LiturgyThe biblical and theological wealth of the Eastern liturgies is at the spiritual service of the universal Church. Nonetheless, it would be useful and important to renew the liturgical texts and celebrations, where necessary, so as to answer better the needs and expectations of the faithful. This renewal must be based on an ever deeper knowledge of tradition and be adapted to contemporary language and categories.
Renewal of the eastern Liturgies? Adapted? Contemporary language? What could possibly go wrong, right?
Have we learned nothing? NOTHING????
We screw this up and the Orthodox will never ever ever trust us.. Leave it alone.
October 24, 2010 at 1:52 pm
Felt banners, bongos, guitars, liturgical dance — after a thousand years of persecution by Islam and almost a century by Communism, this is truly adding insult to the heroic sufferings of the Orthodox.
— Mack
October 24, 2010 at 1:59 pm
If it isn't broke, why fix it? Oh, I forget, the 'reformers' want to break it so they can fix it!
October 24, 2010 at 4:31 pm
I think that until we find out what the precise goals are of the reforms, we shouldn't judge. If it's to revamp everything, get your sack cloth and ashes ready. But if it's to address particular concerns, such as the total absence of the Old Testament in the Divine Liturgy, then it may be worth examining. I've been to Eastern liturgies many times, and as long as they don't change their own rules, they'll be fine – just like they've been insulated from our issues by them.
October 24, 2010 at 5:53 pm
QFT, Nzie.
My advice to all the Archbolds out there is to chill more, and monger reactionary traditional angst less. Maybe I'm in a creative minority in this creative minority, but I actually think that the Novus Ordo is a good thing – infuriating penchant of priests toward liturgical tinkering notwithstanding. Let's remember that a liturgy is of necessity grounded in both the eternal principle of Revelation and the transitory temporality of human culture. What is appropriate for one time and place is not always appropriate, or even desirable, for another. Practices and symbols that were steeped in meaning when they first came into use may over time become historical curiosities, drained of their significance. Should we cling to those symbols for old times' sake? Or would it be preferable to "update" those symbols – not out of a desire for novelty, but because meaningful symbols are preferable to meaningless symbols.
At least, I think that's the way it's supposed to work.
October 24, 2010 at 7:09 pm
Der Wolfanwalt: I also don't mind the Novus Ordo when it is properly done. It is important to remember that early Masses were done in the vernacular. My preference would be for a Mass in the vernacular that incorporates the reverence of the Extraordinary Form. Although I appreciate the Novus Ordo, the liturgical reforms in the Roman Church caused so much chaos that I can understand the animosity towards similar changes in the East.
October 24, 2010 at 7:12 pm
@ Der Wolfanwanlt: Looking at the state of the liturgy in the Catholic "West" as it presents itself nowadays, I really don't know if chilling would be the correct response to the article. We should not be updating the symbols but people's minds. Even the "unenlightened" ones of olden times understood the symbols because there was something like catechesis and a content of faith being handed down in the family. This doesn't mean that you cannot add a new form of symbolism here and there, but it needs to be done carefully and with proper instruction.
October 24, 2010 at 7:32 pm
The Archbold's are more Catholic than the Pope don't ya know. Actually today's Gospel made me think of them. Poor guys have to live in world where no one gets it but them.
October 24, 2010 at 7:51 pm
…unlike some trolls that haunt the CMR bridge, you mean? While you're playing Bible Bingoâ„¢, anonymous, perhaps you might look up Matthew 7:2-5. Sheesh…
October 24, 2010 at 8:30 pm
The complete and utter obliteration of the Liturgical patrimony of the west was not enough. You will now destroy the Faith of those that have endured persecution first under the Jews and later under the Muhammadans.
The enemy we must worry about the about the most is the enemy within just as St Agustine said beware of the anti-christ within each of us.
I do hope this demon is not unleashed in the east, for if the specter of Vatican II finds this ripe new field I am afraid the havoc it will cause will erase the Catholic east forever.
October 24, 2010 at 9:11 pm
Again, it's always safer to lob verbal bombs against people when you're hiding behind the veil of anonymity, eh brave anonymous?
October 24, 2010 at 10:14 pm
Some things do need to change:
1. Commemoration of the Pope of Rome in a way foreign to Eastern Tradition (http://byztex.blogspot.com/2010/10/orthodox-fraternal-delegates-on-middle.html)
2. Latinization and abbreviation as a result of Western (often Jesuit) influence.
3. Odd word changes that depart from the "original" liturgies for the sake of de-emphasizing Orthodox-ness (e.g. "Orthodox" changed to "true faith").
4. Addition of Western faith practices like the rosary instead of the Jesus Prayer.
5. More use of Vespers, Matins, Hours instead of turning everything into a Liturgy.
etc. etc. etc.
Change does need to happen. Change back to older practice.
October 25, 2010 at 12:54 am
Dear Wolfenwalt,
I never monger.
What is "monger," anyway?
— Mack
October 25, 2010 at 1:10 am
Rosy Gardener- If one also prays vespers and matins- you'll get the Old Testament- it is a matter of DOING all that has been our tradition to make certain that all bases are covered
October 25, 2010 at 1:21 am
3 words: liturgical belly dancers.
October 25, 2010 at 2:58 am
The Ruthenians already did some of this….
some parts good, using Theotokos instead of using "Mother of God" for Theotokos as well as for mater theos.
some parts so bad I am embarrassed for anyone Orthodox to know about it
"For He is gracious and loves Mankind" changed to "For He is good and loves us all."
That much change was enough to drive some Ruthenians to Orthodoxy and others to the Ukrainians or the Melkites.
Please, please, please, leave the Divine Liturgy alone! We did our renewal right. We have the liturgy in English. We opened the Royal Doors so we can see and hear the consecration. That's enough change for this 500 years!!!!!!
Susan Peterson
October 25, 2010 at 3:40 am
@ Patrick Button: I agree with you wholeheartedly. I just tend to think that such reactionary fear compounds the problem. What's needed is an orthodox, balanced approach to understanding the liturgy. I think that Fr. Dwight Longnecker most closely approximates my attitude to the subject.
@ Alipius: The blog of the New Liturgical Movement recently had a post on the topic of symbolism. I think that the difficulty in clinging to all the symbols of the past is that there comes a point where, even with adequate education, the symbol no longer resonates. Take the medieval image of the pelican, rending its breast to feed its young. This is a symbol for Christ, but it was born of an understanding of how pelicans operate that doesn't jive with the more complete biological understanding of pelicans. Is that a loss for us? I don't know. But I think that the effort spent on trying to re-instate a symbol that has become so clearly anachronistic could be better spent elsewhere. That's all I'm saying.
@ Anonymous/Mack: Monger – v., to peddle or sell.
@ Giovanni: Who the heck calls them "Mohammedans" any more, except to hearken back to a Crusader ethos that, if implemented today, would surely be a very negative thing?
October 25, 2010 at 4:55 am
True, Priest's Wife, but the person I heard about these from and who seemed to support them was also an Eastern Rite priest.
Joseph Flavinius – fwiw, the word for "Orthodox" in Russian does have the word "true" in it.. it looks like "true glory" to me but as I'm not an expert I can't make a particular claim- it could be OCS for "true word" if there was a vowel mutation over time, e.g.
October 25, 2010 at 4:58 am
A return to the beautiful 9th century DIvine Liturgy would be wonderful. (More vocal priest prayers, less diaconal add-ons). Old Testament readings would be good, but so would more Divine Praises (Eastern version of Divine Office, with lots of OT).
Nothing wrong with commemorating clergy that you are in communion with. Eastern Catholics are in union with the Pope, after all. Eliminate all latinizations, and purely Western devotions, though, which in my humble opinion includes any obsession with 'modernizing' and Western-style 'get in-get out' streamlining. After my exposure to ancient Eastern forms, a Latin Rite Mass seems more like a summary of the story than the story itself.
The Rosary is beautiful, but I love the rich and nourishing Akathists and Molebens. Those and other Eastern devotions should be encouraged, Note, however, that the Maronites love the Rosary also, and consider themselves both 'Eastern' and 'Roman'; their Church never had an Orthodox counterpart.
I'm Latin rite, but go to a Ukrainian Catholic Church by choice, and the words 'orthodox' and 'Orthodox Christian' are prominent at Liturgy. I am a great lover of the prayer of St. Josaphat, which reads in part ' gather us into the oneness of Catholic unity and the fullness of Orthodox faith'. That's the way it should be. Our broken-ness hurts our Christian witness in a world fast devolving into a paganism worse than that of Jesus' time.
October 25, 2010 at 5:40 am
nzie: You can follow the whole "true faith" vs. "Orthodox" debate here:
http://www.byzcath.org/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/289633/1
October 25, 2010 at 1:26 pm
@Der Wolfanwalt
Chesterton called them that, Belloc called them that, many other Holly clerics of the Church called them that. I see no reason to not call a heresy by its name sake.
As far as the Crusades are concerned if you think they are negative then I think we now know where our true allegiances rest.