Pat’s been pretty tough on Newt here and he’s gotten some pretty nasty hate mail in return on that. But we’re cool with that. You want to see hate mail, check out the times that Pat said nasty things about Ron Paul. Whew.
But I must say. I’m completely with Pat on the Newt thing. I get a little tired of hearing that all that infidelity occured before Newt became a Catholic. Hooray. I’m all for Newt’s conversion. But when did conversion become an eraser of worldly consequences?
You can’t tell people you’ve done horrible things but that was before you became a Christian so all those things don’t matter. I think they do. And to weigh the fact that Newt has been a serial philanderer when choosing a President is not out of bounds. And it’s not un-Christian to bring it up.
Maggie Gallagher wrote:
The great pro-Newt meme now floating is that Christianity is all about forgiveness. Yes, it is. But isn’t there something…oh forgive me, I’m Catholic, this scripture quoting is so hard. Something about, “First go and be reconciled to your brother; then come and offer your gift.” (True, it says nothing about ex-wives, a harder case.)
Truthfully, it’s not about forgiveness. Gingrich did not injure me, he doesn’t require my forgiveness. It’s a judgment about his character and trustworthiness with power that each voter will have to make.
Look, I’ve known some alcoholics and junkies in my life. There were a few times where I spoke to them and they said they rediscovered their faith and they seemed clean. They told me they were clean. They told their wives they were clean. And you know what…they were. For a while. And then they slid back and became worse than ever before.
I’m not saying that Newt’s conversion isn’t real. I’m saying that all Christians fail at times. We’re all sinners. Christianity is not an innoculation against bad behavior and it certainly isn’t immunity from the past. I hope Newt Gingrich is a better person than I think he is. I don’t believe he is. Hey, part of me wants to. But I don’t.
Just last year, Newt told David Brody on CBN that he cheated on his wives because he loved his country so much.
“There’s no question at times of my life, partially driven by how passionately I felt about this country, that I worked far too hard and things happened in my life that were not appropriate.
That was last year.
Even to think something like that is weird. Saying it is weirder. And saying it on camera is way too weird for me. A shfiting of responsibility is not what I want to hear. He doesn’t have to convince me. I’m not asking him for anything. He’s asking for my vote. He’s asking me. And at this point, I remain unconvinced.
January 21, 2012 at 6:11 pm
Newt may have access to all the graces the Chrch can bestow pon him through the sacraments, but they can't bestow instant maturity. He has beheaved in a very immature way most of his life, so he has a long way to go before he is ready for another leadership position.
January 21, 2012 at 6:39 pm
Steve – you are exactly right.
We can't think of the sacraments as a sort of magic wand, or a "get out of jail free" card. We wish. It seems we have to do the hard work of confirming ourselves in virtuous habits over a lifetime.
January 21, 2012 at 6:42 pm
Hate mail – wow.
"Just last year, Newt told David Brody on CBN that he cheated on his wives because he loved his country so much."
LOL.
I think he is saying he worked too hard which ultimately lead to an abandonment to his marriage. Some of the forefathers of this country left their wives here in Massachusetts lonely, etc. I'm not sure that's virtue or patriotism exactly, but it can lead to trouble, especially these days in Washington.
When it comes to men and the things of the flesh, that I can understand. If it's good enough to admitted to the Sainthood of Christ's Church, it's good enough for me.
I'd much rather have that than a lying chameleon and narcissist who is using us to get elected.
What we need right now in this country is somebody who can take the media to the woodshed. Beat them back. Newt is what we've got. Rick has the virtues and comes in a close second.
I don't care which. Romney is going down baby!
🙂
January 21, 2012 at 7:43 pm
Another check to Santorum for 12 bucks.
What? You haven't donated even 5 clams? Better get on it, before its too late!
January 21, 2012 at 7:45 pm
Oh and if you have more cash than the $12 bucks, you may also want to check out his Super Pac:
http://rwbfund.com/
Red White and Blue Fund.
January 21, 2012 at 8:39 pm
"But I must say. I'm completely with Pat on the Newt thing. I get a little tired of hearing that all that infidelity occured before Newt became a Catholic. Hooray. I'm all for Newt's conversion. But when did conversion become an eraser of worldly consequences?"
When are the Archbold's going write about the full acceptance of the Catholic Church of adultery that is unrepentant?
It goes on everyday.
Get the Heck(I mean the other word but have chosen not to write it) of Newt's back on this, if you are going to give the American Bishops and the Pope a pass on this issue!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It is a FACT that unrepentant adulterers are treated as couples by the Catholic Church in all but a wedding ceremony, to the great detriment of valid marriages and in an open mockery of the fidelity of abandoned spouses.
The horrors that abandoned spouses go through every day are meaningless to our lousy Pope and our lousy bishops.
Like you, I do think Newt is a far less thqan perfect candidate and I would much rather see Rick Santorum be elected president. But I do not think Rick will beat Newt. Consequently, I pray that Newt will beat Romney and then be elected president and THEN I hope his conversion is seen to be true.
All I have is hope.
But, you are disingenuous regarding what the Catholic Church is REALLY doing to marriage.
Their message is different than their practices, in the trenches.
Ask Bai Macfarlane, go ahead!!!!
Karl
January 22, 2012 at 1:05 am
It's funny, but I didn't even have to read all the way to the end to know who wrote the 3:39 pm post.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobby_horse
January 22, 2012 at 1:48 am
Dear Matthew,
I really struggle with Newt. As a young Catholic woman I really struggle with liking or voting for a guy who has cheated on two out of his three wives. Just having three wives alone makes me a little uneasy.
I am the only republican in my family. All my sisters, their husbands, and my parents voted for Obama. I would have a very hard time talking my parents into voting for Newt. He only confirms and solidifies their negative stereotypes about republicans. I really don't see Newt pulling the independent moderate voters with all his baggage and his image of being the brilliant but arrogant old white man. I think he will be a divider and not a uniter.
He may be a debater, but presidents are not made (except Obama) by their debate skills. Good presidents are people who make sound decisions and is dependable even through the tough times. When he was in office he was forcibly removed for his decisions.
I am a Rick Santorum person. He is the first candidate in my adult life that I have truly supported. Right now I wouldn't mind Romney except that he is too rich for independents/ moderates, and he flips flops on too many important issues.
I like Callista. I think she seems like a classy lady, but I struggle with her willingness to break up a marriage. Also, on a Catholic canon law note did Newt and Callista have to get alot of annulments to be able to receive communion?
January 22, 2012 at 1:54 am
Also, on a Catholic canon law note did Newt and Callista have to get alot of annulments to be able to receive communion?
Yes, at least Newt did.
January 22, 2012 at 1:58 am
Newt; he may be a serial adulterer, liar, so corrupt that his own party evicted him in the '90's but now he's Catholic and a changed man. That Freddie Mac pay to play? Piffle, what's a million or two here and there, it's only tax money, he's Newt, after all.
Santorum: he may have been voted one of the most corrupt members of Congress back in '06, so despised in PA for his arrogance and support of abortion and Obamacare advocate Spector (he bragged about his endorsement getting Spector elected over Toomey)he can't get elected dog catcher in PA, revealed a complete lack of character in warning an adulterer buddy about the cuckolded husband going public with it when the husband emailed him for help, is so ravenous for blood and power to assassinate private citizens he's irrational…but he's Catholic and he's OUR corrupt phoney madman(please, spare us the crud about his "virtues").
January 22, 2012 at 6:48 am
Matthew: I'm an alcoholic and I've been sober for 27 years, married once after I got sober, professional engineer, son in top 10 college. Not all blacks play basketball, not all alkies relapse.
January 22, 2012 at 7:58 am
Neither Gingrich nor Santorum are on the ballot in all States. Due to lack of organization, they both missed several deadlines so neither one of them can possibly acquire enough delegates to capture the nomination. Therefore, fundraising will continue to be difficult for them and likewise, organization non-existent. The race is basically between Romney and Paul. Paul is obviously the only acceptable choice for practicing Catholics and the only candidate that could steal the Catholic vote from Obama as well as the majority of his (disillusioned) voter base from 08.
January 22, 2012 at 3:23 pm
There are plenty of delegates to capture the nomination.
If you believe that the author of Obamacare, the author of forcing Catholics to pay for abortions and hand out abortifacients, the author of gay marriage whom the grassroots Catholic prolife voter or evangelical is not going to vote for, come what may, can steal the White House, you are swimming in a river of denial and we cannot help you.
We are really finished with the GOP retooling people like Romney as a prolife Catholic agenda. We thought they learned that lesson last time but if we have to give it to them again, we shall.
January 22, 2012 at 5:41 pm
No matter who he slept with, cheated on or lied to, does no one remember what he was like when he was Clinton's Speaker of the House? He was a moronic fascist then and was investigated and run out of the House. All the time vilifying Clinton for his infidelity. So, now he's Catholic (the denomination is sadly lacking mention on most "Christian" sites) – somehow I don't think a major miracle has occurred. He looks, acts and sounds just like he did back in the early 90's. And I still don't want a fascist for a President.
January 22, 2012 at 6:20 pm
Does not anyone care that Newt has no intention of "changing" anything. That he is bought and paid for like the rest and is dead set on taking us right into another war, possibly World War III? Get over his infidelity and start looking at the insanity of his politics. The arrogance and fear mongering that has destroyed the reputation of this country. The pandering to big banks and big money to where most of our public funds have been transferred into private hands and those hands aint yours and mine darlin. This country was specifically founded on NOT Christianity, but freedom of religion. Get your religion out of politics and start respecting the rest of the ppl as having a right to chose their beliefs and vote for someone that might actually make decent choices to improve our current circumstances. It is not about God judging America and if we just get a righteous man in there, we will have God's blessing again. It is that we, the people, have not done our job in holding our leaders accountable and we have let freedom after freedom slip through our hands to the point that the elite have the majority of the benefits that are supposed to rest in the hands of, well, the majority. God didn't do this, our politicians did it and we let them and now WE, not God, need to fix it. Get over the infidelity and start looking at the actual politics. Newt is psycho and paranoid and will destroy this nation. BTW, there is not a single candidate, other than Ron Paul, that will not conduct business as usual, including Obama. GOP or Dem. Not that I am all into RP, but he is the only one that actually has a bit of sense in how to mind our own business in foreign policy and how to respect our freedoms as people. There is much I don't agree with him on, but he walks his talk and I can at least respect him.
January 22, 2012 at 8:29 pm
I like Santorum and Gingrich. Santorum doesn't seem to have solid support (noting events in New Hamshire and SC). The support for Gingrich seems to be growing.
Only real CONVERSION of HEART on the part of our citizens will really change our country in the way that it needs to be changed.
In the meantime, I will support Gingrich with prayer and….remembering that God has often chosen some of the worst for His greatest works (St. Paul, St. Augustine, Mary Magdalene, etc…etc).
KM
January 22, 2012 at 9:15 pm
"We are really finished with the GOP retooling people like Romney as a prolife Catholic agenda. We thought they learned that lesson last time but if we have to give it to them again, we shall."
They didn't learn that lesson last time, won't learn it this time, and never will learn it. The reason is because of all of the lemming Republicans who will always vote for the establishment's nominee no matter who it is. The establishment knows that they can pick whoever they want, tell Republican voters that they have no choice but to vote for that nominee, and the vast majority of the sheeple will obey them. You need to look no further than the CMR blog, where in 2008, we heard nothing but "John McCain this" and "John McCain that," and the basic message that anything other than a vote for McCain was immoral. The same thing will again happen this year, when CMR rallies around Romney once he gets the nomination. In fact, if Gingrich somehow found his way to the nomination (which he won't), CMR would rally behind him too in spite of everything that's been said here. The sheeple always obey, and that's exactly why the Republican establishment will NEVER learn or change anything.
January 22, 2012 at 10:23 pm
I would appreciate a canonist's forensic explanation of the processes and protocols for situations like this. Without knowing whether the Gingrich's (current) situation demanded testimonies as to the former dispositions of previous marriages, it occurs to me that an analogous scenario might be that of the persons who repeatedly take advantage of the judicial system in bankruptcy court to divest themselves of the bulk of personal responsiblity for failing to live up to their fiscal commitments. And, of course, these sorts of actions have all sorts of costs, repercussions, and burdens placed upon others besides the petitioners and their creditors.
Would you want someone who self-professed incompetency to manage their personal fiscal affairs and laid that burden significantly upon the nebulous back of "the system" re-appearing after a systematic makeover and with the zeal of a born-again soul, offering their expertise to run the largest financial institution on the globe?
This is the nexus of the connundrum. By what criteria is the electorate expected to divine the ethical fitness of a potential executive who has had to call upon the resources of the legal system to deliver himself from himself?
OK, he's Catholic, he's repented, he's forgiven, he's reconciled and now received. But by what earthly institutional dialectic did he prevail upon for that deliverance?
Or am I out of bounds?
January 23, 2012 at 12:27 am
If Newt abandoned his wife and his marriage, why did he not abandon his lust for his passionate patriotism? Or how can Newt be passionately patriotic and focused on the common good while indulging himself? These positions are inimical to each other. I refuse to be the scapegoat for Newt's indiscretions.
January 23, 2012 at 12:38 am
@Anon @1:48AM but I will bet you never blamed your obsessive compulsive behavior on anyone but yourself which is why you are able to deal with it. Newt is still blaming everyone and everthing for his failure to be upright.