Cardinal Dolan has my prayers but I think this is a huuuuge mistake.
You can read his whole explanation here but here’s a nugget:
Some have told me the invitation is a scandal. That charge weighs on me, as it would on any person of faith, but especially a pastor, who longs to give good example, never bad. So, I apologize if I have given such scandal. I suppose it’s a case of prudential judgment: would I give more scandal by inviting the two candidates, or by not inviting them?
No matter what you might think of this particular decision, might I ask your prayers for me and my brother bishops and priests who are faced with making these decisions, so that we will be wise and faithful shepherds as God calls us to be?
In the end, I’m encouraged by the example of Jesus, who was blistered by his critics for dining with those some considered sinners; and by the recognition that, if I only sat down with people who agreed with me, and I with them, or with those who were saints, I’d be taking all my meals alone.
This event will be used by the Obama campaign to further its chances at re-election.
I’ll probably write more about this later and Pat probably will as well but I just wanted to get this up for your perusal.
August 16, 2012 at 2:00 am
How embarrassing. "I'd like to think that, given the choice, Jesus would have proudly ate with unrepentant sinners and told them 'Go, and sin more.'"
Reminds me of that phrase Jesus had for the first Pope when he was thinking as humans think, "Get behind me Satan."
August 16, 2012 at 3:03 am
Susan,
I think you are being unfair to Cardinal Dolan and your hysterical tone doesn't contribute much to this discussion.
"He runs out of town on the eve of New York's passing of 'gay marriage' without uttering a whimper."
He didn't exactly "run out of town." He had to leave to chair a meeting of the USCCB, of which he is the President. It was his job, his obligation, to chair that meeting. It was undoubtedly scheduled months in advance. It was an unhappy coincidence that this took place at the same time that the time the vote was taken – that can't be scheduled far in advance. And you know nothing about what Cardinal Dolan did, what personal phone calls he might have made to persuade people. He himself was said that he was assured by those in the know that the law wouldn't pass, so he probably felt it was safe to go.
"He sits on his Chair at a blatantly 'homosexual Mass', stroking his chin and nodding in agreement and admiration at the scandal going on in front of his eyes (this is on video!)."
I don't know if you know this or not, but once again it's a bishop's JOB to visit all the parishes in his diocese, attend services there, and find out what's going on and if they are doing the right thing and faithful to the Church. It's called a pastoral visitation. Corrections of parishes and priests, once again, go on behind the scenes. You are not likely to be privy to them, so stop making assumptions about what Cardinal Dolan is or isn't doing about this parish.
"I DON'T WANT TO GO THERE"???? "The saints…would not want us to go there either."??? Holy smokes! How about, "we CANNOT, we WILL NOT, we WILL DIE before, we go there!"? Now THAT would be a Cardinal worth his red hat!…"
This is Cardinal Dolan's understated style. When I read it, I understood perfectly that he meant the Church was not going to do that. I don't know why you couldn't. Maybe you can't understand anything that's not a hysterical 100-mile and hour rant typed IN ALL CAPITAL LETTERS WITH EXCLAMATION POINTS!!!!
"I don't enjoy criticizing a Cardinal."
You don't? Then why do you do it so often and at such length?
August 16, 2012 at 6:50 am
Lori,
The Cardinal himself admitted that he had been 'shocked' by the passage of gay marriage in NY…he believed ridiculous advice by, as you laughingly put it; “those in the know” (what the heck is a Cardinal-Archbishop supposed to be?), that there was nothing to worry about. Who on earth didn't see the juggernaut coming with ‘catholic’ Cuomo's massive push leading up to it? And you're absolutely right, a planned meeting of the USCCB is waaaay more important than staying to fight one of the biggest cultural and moral crises this country (and the Church) has ever faced, cause no one else could have conceivably run a meeting; no vice pres? no other bishop? It HAD to be Dolan running a meeting? Again, he said it was the wrong thing to do. And his ‘efforts’ against the same-sex marriage push were so anemic that Cuomo called them ‘reasonable’…lemme translate that for you, “he didn’t get in my way very much, or make too much trouble for me”.
As to the gay Mass…the GLBT 'ministries' (promoting an active homosexual lifestyle against Church teaching) were applauded, feted, and celebrated. After having (quote) “the Catholic Lesbian Group” and “our Gay Catholic Men’s Group” presented to him AT THE MASS, the Cardinal, nodded vigorously in approval, lifted his arm in salute, and got up in the pulpit back-slapping for 20 minutes. Not one peep on what the Church teaches as regards the active homosexual lifestyle. That would have been truly pastoral. Read St. Paul…he might surprise you with his stunning lack of ‘niceness’ when he knew gravely sinful acts were being tolerated. His first concern was the souls in mortal danger for the act itself, and those thrown into confusion by its tolerance; not the PR optics and being perceived as a nice guy. Do some of your own research before you go on a hysterical rant. Here, I'll get you started…
http://lesfemmes-thetruth.blogspot.com/2010/07/bishop-dolan-cheers-gay-groups-at.html
And I love your 'understated style' comment…New York now has gay ‘marriage’; St. Francis Xavier Parish (among others) is still ‘gay affirming’; and the most pro-abort, enemy-of-the-Church president EVER will have a reserved seat beside the Cardinal and a voice from the podium, at yet another major Catholic event, all at the Cardinal’s express invitation. Gotta love that understated style…Paul coulda learned a lot from him.
And as to your hyperbolic criticism of my writing; some things are worth emphasizing strongly because they are MUCH more important than other things, or they are too reason-defying to be believed. I understand fully that milquetoast and lukewarm are the temperatures in vogue today, but I prefer to have some fire in my veins about issues that put souls in danger. I know this is an unpopular position to take, but so be it, I’m not concerned with my own PR. Speak the Truth in season and out of season and speak it boldly that some souls might be saved and shepherds woken up.
“Then why do you (criticize C. Dolan) so often and at such length?”….that’s easy. Because I love him.
August 16, 2012 at 7:41 am
Susan,
I looked at that video. Wow, the part you talked about took up all of fifteen seconds. You didn't mention by the way, that the then-Archbishop was smiling and saluting at the statement that the Lesbian and Gay Ministries were helping gay people "RETURN TO THE SACRAMENTS." (I put that in all capitals so you'd understand it). You know,the sacraments — as in Confession? The fruit of repentance for sin? Followed by Communion? Wouldn't a bishop naturally cheer for souls being converted?
You conveniently left out the part (included in Michael Voris' poisonous video) where the Archbishop told the gay groups in the parish not to March in the Gay Pride parade under the parish banner because that clearly DOES openly support the homosexual lifestyle as that is what the parade is all about. Its sounds as if he was doing his job there.
And perhaps he is content to have the priests at the parish take care of the state of the souls of the people there, converting hearts of those still mired in sinful behavior and offering the sacraments to those who need them. My heart bleeds, and yours should too, at the struggle many of these people have had, especially as they are denounced by so-called "good Catholics." Every sinner is welcome at Mass, including you and I. What are you pointing fingers at one group of sinners who are in need of help? Many are at different stages along the road and you can't expect them to all be perfect at once. You hear one or two of these and denounce the whole group.
By the way exactly how do you know that the people in these groups were engaged in a sinful lifestyle? Did you go to the parish and ask them? Since you apparently give all homosexuals a wide berth and are prone to denouncing them left and right and left without knowing them, I'd say not. Without concrete evidence, you are engaging in sinful detraction of your neighbors.
Once again, you do NOT know what is going on behind the scenes here, and are apparently not too well informed (or very forgetful) about what is going on publicly. You don't have a case here.
August 16, 2012 at 9:18 am
Actually, I think it would be beter to say "calumny and slander."
August 16, 2012 at 11:59 am
Lori,
You said all you needed to say here…"Michael Voris' poisonous video". You tipped your hand a little too tellingly with that.
St. Francis Xavier's is VERY public about being out and proud…it's the East Coast version of Most Holy Redeemer. DO SOME RESEARCH…it's VERY public. The emphasis is on total inclusiveness…No call to repenting of the act of sodomy (did you even notice the woman who on camera said, “I can be fully who I am there, in relationship with my partner” (!)
"By the way exactly how do you know that the people in these groups were engaged in a sinful lifestyle? "…gee, I dunno, maybe by THEIR OWN WORDS?!?! Again, do some research.
“Since you apparently give all homosexuals a wide berth and are prone to denouncing them left and right and left without knowing them, I'd say not. Without concrete evidence, you are engaging in sinful detraction of your neighbors.”
Wow…talk about calumny and slander. There’s plenty of concrete evidence for the FACTS that I’ve stated, they just are apparently inconvenient facts for you. Every Catholic who carries the most difficult cross of same-sex attraction should most assuredly come to Mass…they are our brothers and sisters, and they are in great need of the strength and grace offered at the Holy Sacrifice to live a lifestyle in accord with Church teaching, we all are. And if they are living a chaste (celibate) life, and are in a state of grace (having confessed all known mortal sins) they should most assuredly receive the Eucharist. If they are actively engaging in homosexual acts they should not approach for Communion, just as I shouldn’t if I’m in an adulterous relationship. This is Catholicism 101. At St. Francis X, this isn’t the teaching…DO SOME RESEARCH LORI. Our Lord’s Body is used to make a political statement, and advance a Church-defying political cause. It you want to call me names for pointing it out, have at it.
And as to the whole banner issue, are you aware that the group did march in the parade? They used a blank banner the first year, with everyone knowing who they were and what they were saying. In fact they stated it the following year on the banner they carried, “Saint Francis Xavier, come to the table”.
I’m not gonna keep playing the little games here, I don’t have time for it. The truth is obvious for anyone who wants to see it. There is a deep negligence of true pastoral care for souls going on in various parts of the episcopacy, and the Church in America is in grave danger as a result. I had great hope that with Cardinal Dolan heading things here we would see a return to orthodoxy and solid judgment. Sadly, I (and many others) have been disappointed on too many crucial fronts. Coming around full circle to the topic of this post, the Al Smith dinner is just the latest.
St. Athanasius (he was a warrior Lori, who stood up against the zeitgeist of the world when 85% of the episcopacy had gone Arian), “Contra Mundum”, pray for us.
Now, I’ve got housework to do…take the last word.
August 16, 2012 at 3:13 pm
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August 16, 2012 at 3:47 pm
I'm sorry, but those of you that are claiming that Jesus only ate with unrepentant sinners are wrong. Not only did he dine with sinners that had not turned their back on sin, unlike any of us He knew exactly what everyone's heart was, He knew not only what they had done but what they were going to do. And despite that knowledge, he named Judas one of the 12, dined with Him and trusted Him as one of His closest friends and disciples. But He knew Judas was going to deliver Him to death.
And just like Joseph being betrayed by His brothers, Jesus' betrayal by his brother was used for immeasurable good.
Jesus invited someone He knew was going to betray Him to dine with Him every day. He did it because He trusted Our Father in Heaven had a plan and would see it through to completion. Cardinal Dolan seems to be trusting God's ability to make His plan work.
Remember what Jesus told us: He guaranteed that His Church would not fail.
Cardinal Dolan is blessed with gifts of the Holy Spirit that none of us laity are gifted with. He has a better chance of discerning God's will for His Church than any of us. He may fail to properly discern, he may make mistakes. But Judas turned Jesus over to be crucified and not even the Apostles that had seen and performed miracles, walking alongside Jesus could foresee the amazing fruit that was going to flow from that scandal, that betrayal, that gravest of all sins.
You don't have to trust Cardinal Dolan. But you don't have to worry that Cardinal Dolan is going to destroy the Church. You just have to put your trust in God. He either keeps His promises and His Church will prevail, or He's not God.
August 16, 2012 at 11:41 pm
Susan,
"No call to repenting of the act of sodomy." You know this how? Have you been in the church listening to all the sermons given? Are you privy to all the private conversations the priests hold with the people there?
Yes, ONE person, in a ten-second sound bite mentioned her partner, but we don't really have much context. Some people in the groups may live chastely, or at least understand the need to fight sin, but others may not be there yet. It doesn't speak for all the gay people of the parish, much less what their pastors are doing for them.
And you have not pointed to anything that Cardinal Dolan has done wrong. He has held up Church teaching even if some people disobeyed him.
I think it's very telling that you said what you did about Michael Voris. His own diocese said he shouldn't put Catholic in the name of his broadcasting media any longer. THAT's very telling. He says things himself that are completely at odds with complete teaching. Like that rabbinic Judaism is a "man-made religion" that has nothing to do with the Judaism of the OT and NT. That is not the teaching of the Church. That is very telling. He is recently partnering with a known anti-Semite. Anti-semitism is a sin too, you know. That's why I am wary of his videos and you should bee too. And he is poisonous because he does little but tear down his fellow Catholics, and engages in ginned-up hysteria to energize his "base." Give me Cardinal Dolan any day.
August 17, 2012 at 3:48 am
P-A-T-H-E-T-I-C
Lemme take a wild stab here Lori…you have an Obama bumper sticker on your car?
August 17, 2012 at 4:18 am
…a "smart" car, right???
August 17, 2012 at 4:19 am
…with a big, "I heart the nuns on the bus!" sign in the back window?
August 17, 2012 at 5:42 am
"Lemme take a wild stab here Lori…you have an Obama bumper sticker on your car?"
No, Susan I do not. Nor do I love the "nuns on the bus" who are disobedient to Rome. I did not vote for Obama, strange as that might seem to you. Your problem is that you can only see things in black and white, one extreme or another. People are there are both sides waiting to steal your soul because they tell you that you are right and to hate everyone on "the other side." I won't go there and I advise you not to get out of there.
August 17, 2012 at 5:43 am
Oops, I mean "I advise you to get out of there."
August 17, 2012 at 2:51 pm
…a front doormat that says, "Nuclear-Free Zone!"???