For the record and for all those who read into posts things that are just not there:
I have not criticized the Pope neither indirectly or otherwise.
I have responded to Cardinal Mahony’s tweets and his interpretation of events and I have offered some of my thoughts on liturgy. For anyone to suggest that I am criticizing the Pope implies that they know the Pope would not agree with my thoughts. I have no idea if that is true or not since the Pope hasn’t done or said anything in this regard yet. So how can I be criticizing the Pope?
I too have no problem with masses done simply but correctly. My points are directed at folks like the Cardinal that wish to strip the mass of anything not sufficiently plain or simple, as if that is axiomatically better. This is made worse by the Cardinal assuming that the Pope supports his ridiculous assertions.
I am not playing games here, I am totally sincere. I have not criticized the Pope at all.
March 18, 2013 at 10:31 pm
But you still haven't changed the heading that says "Pope Francis I" There is no "I" It's just Pope Francis.
March 18, 2013 at 10:34 pm
Since the "Pope Storm" has exploded, I consider who is saying what.
I was really appalled at the attacks on you on a Facebook post by someone who shall remain nameless. The pile-on was immediate.
I thought your posts were some of the best I've read.
March 18, 2013 at 11:21 pm
Helene
I leave it up there because it bugs people so!
😉
March 19, 2013 at 12:08 am
…and so what if you did… he is a man – fully human. Not Christ himself. In prudential matters, everyone, including the pope, are open to criticism.
Mark
March 19, 2013 at 12:16 am
Pat:
You've had a good run. You gave Mahony the cyperspatial @$$-whooping he richly deserved. "Come unto me, all you who are heavily labored, and I shall give thee rest." Have a good stiff drink, preferably single malt. You deserve it. And no, you did not criticize the pope.
In a related story: "Messa in Latino is reporting that a red, fur-lined papal mozetta was hurriedly delivered by Gammarelli to the Vatican today." (h/t to Forward Boldly.)
March 19, 2013 at 12:29 am
Patrick, your denial only cements your guilt. We have already deemed you impure and pronounced sentence upon you. Stop trying to use facts and logic to escape the inevitable eradication of all your efforts, as we are now dedicated to this goal. We have been assigned by the Church authorities to ferret out all those we deem to possibly be disloyal and we will discharge our duties with impunity.
The League of Internet Inquisitors and Caretakers of the Catholic Faith (or what we deem to be its Internet variation)
March 19, 2013 at 1:02 am
Others have pointed this out, but if anyone has seen the masses held for the religious ed gatherings held yearly in Anaheim Ca sponsored by Cardinal Mahony, they are anything but simple and plain, just one example being the cring inducing choreographed liturgical dancing. It almost seems like the mind set is that if all the "pomp & circumstance" is directed towards or for God then its prideful and unbefitting of Catholicism, but if the ceremony is geared towards celebrating the congregents then its all good, no matter how over the top and in poor taste it is.
March 19, 2013 at 1:17 am
You know what, I (and a lot of other people, evidently!) read your post and didn't realize you were talking about Cardinal Mahony. I thought you were saying that the Pope was wrong to, you know, cook his own dinner and take the bus and everything. I thought you were saying that his style of simplicity isn't fitting now that he's pope, and that it's really a matter of arrogance and not humility. But I see that I misunderstood. I see your post wasn't about the pope at all. I will try not to jump to conclusions in the future, but in the future if you include in the post the name of the person you're actually talking about, it will help people like me not to think you're talking about someone else. In other words, you were being subtle: you left us guessing. We guessed wrong. Mea culpa, but also tua.
March 19, 2013 at 1:33 am
Anon
The entire fist part of my post referenced Mahony. I don't know what post you were looking at. The Title said "Mahony Tweets on Liturgy-So Do I" should have been a dead giveaway don't you think?
March 19, 2013 at 2:28 am
Maybe Anon is referencing you Downton post?
March 19, 2013 at 2:34 am
Kelli
If anyone sees my Downton post as a criticism of the Pope, they are beyond help.
March 19, 2013 at 2:46 am
As Anonymi have stated here, you're already guilty AND it's not unCatholic to discuss Pope Francis' liturgical aberrations should we find out that they exist.
And I have referred to our new Holy Father as Pope Francis I because my children are too young to know there wasn't a prior Francis, and that I wasn't on a first name basis when I texted them: 'Habemus Papem, Francis.
As for critiquing Mahoney…he owes a HUGE mea culpa for all of the damage he has done; I don't think many want to know his projections about our new Holy Fathe. He should be silently penitential…..so critique away!
March 19, 2013 at 3:11 am
While there have been some "conservative" or "traditional" Catholics who have been out-of-line hypercritical of Pope Francis (to the point of being almost delusional about it,) I'm quickly tiring of the people who are reacting by acting outraged by any comments that might be even tangentially critical of anything he does.
I like Pope Francis. I think that he's a great man and I expect that he'll be a great blessing as Pope. But, naturally, I have a few disagreements with him. It would be creepy if I didn't. Yes, I would like to have seen him in a mozetta, and even in red shoes. At the same time, I've rather enjoyed his cross-centric homilies and addresses. Whether I agree or disagree with him on something doesn't add or subtract from his rightful authority as Pope. People need to simmer down.
March 19, 2013 at 4:38 am
My main concern, in being a Protestant convert to the faith and being the only catholics in our family, is how I see firsthand how these types of comments and disagreements affect the views of Protestants towards the catholic faith. In their mind, why should try take the claim of being Christ's church seriously, when the body is fighting over his red shoes. It's frustrating. Charity all around.
March 19, 2013 at 4:39 am
Autocorrect is killing me. Please disregard any weirdly phrased sentences, lol
March 19, 2013 at 12:21 pm
I have never, not once, mentioned his red shoes. Do not conflate my statements with the statements of others.
March 19, 2013 at 2:15 pm
I understand you haven't, it was a facetious example. Again, charity all around.
March 19, 2013 at 12:28 pm
But bless your heart — you changed it. Thanks!
March 19, 2013 at 12:35 pm
Yes, I mean the Downton post. Please reread it, but this time through the eyes of someone who has not read your previous posts on Cardinal Mahony–who hasn't even heard about the latest goings-on with Cardinal Mahony. You write about someone who needs to learn that "simplicity is not always humility, and pomp is not always pride." That's exactly how the rad-trads have been writing about the pope.
I think you were viewing the Downton article as a continuation of previous posts. But it's unreasonable to assume that everyone who reads your latest post has also read your last ones.
My point in writing this comment is to show that the misunderstanding wasn't in bad faith. You wrote something that relied on a context that many of your readers didn't have. I am glad to realize that I misunderstood you.
March 19, 2013 at 12:58 pm
Questioning is not criticism.
The Pope, in temporal matters that are within his prudential judgment, can be questioned, with charity.
Has fascist political correctness invaded us too or do we have in incorrect view of papal infallibility?
March 19, 2013 at 1:44 pm
1. Of course we can question popes. Goodness, the Romans of Roma play that home game all the times.
2. OTOH, it's hilarious to see folks like Mahony, Boff, Kung, etc. trying to claim this pope as one of their own (and trads believing it!) when this pope spent a lifetime getting ripped on by the liberals of his own order and diocese.
It's easily seen that this is a power play, but most people believe it. For some reason.
March 19, 2013 at 2:24 pm
I agree, you haven't. But even if you did, it is alright to criticize, to question and even to dissent from certain matters even if they come from the Pope. My professor at CUA wrote an exellent book called "The Limits of the Papacy". He is only the pope, not God-incarnate.
March 19, 2013 at 2:26 pm
Now Mahoney and the weed in CA makes for interesting liturgical dances – just sayin'
March 19, 2013 at 3:10 pm
Other people like myself are starting to notice that this is a "Personality Cult" and because of this nobody can or should be critical about anything. It goes with the territory. But it is not just "Liberal" or "Progressive" Catholics. Its also "Faithful" Catholics like Dolan, Donald Wuerhl and even the great Ralph Martin and Peter Tagle of the Phiillpines. They say in effect Francis is a better Pope than Benedict because he's "Pastor" which is to say the latter was not. What B.S.