I must admit that my frustration and disappointment with Cardinal Dolan is mounting.
The tough talk followed by the wink, nod, and chuckle is wearing thin.
Cardinal Dolan, according to the DailyNews said that he and the Bishops would be “as vociferous and rigorous as possible in our opposition” to the governor’s efforts” to further entrench NY as the aborto-murder capitol of the world.
One would hope that ‘as vociferous as possible” will amount to something more than the embarrassing and inept day late and dollar short effort the bishops put up against gay marriage.
One would hope, alas, I wouldn’t hope too hard.
When asked how Cuomo could still consider himself a Catholic in good standing while also promoting such extreme abortion legislation, Dolan responded: “That’s something that I talk turkey with him about.”
Wow. Finally a bishop, a Cardinal no less, is gonna tell a virulently pro-murder politician that you can’t be a virulently pro-murder politician and a Catholic and good standing.
Except the Cardinal is going to do no such thing. Dolan spokesman Joseph Zwilling made it clear later that the Cardinal believes you can be a virulently pro-murder politician and a Catholic and good standing when shortly after the Cardinal’s tough talk he was quick to say “the cardinal did not mean to suggest that Cuomo would not be a Catholic in good standing if he went forward with the bill.”
Say what?
Apparently talking turkey has been ditched in favor of talking turkeys.
Hell is gonna have to add a new wing to accommodate all the Catholics in good standing.
The bishops and Cardinal Dolan ought to be ashamed.
May 16, 2013 at 8:58 pm
He lost me at the Al Davis dinner invite to Obama. He explained it as Jesus having dinner with sinners, publicans, etc.
Maybe I misread the reference, but wasn't Jesus the one invited by the sinners to dine with them, not the other way around?
May 16, 2013 at 9:04 pm
""Maybe I misread the reference, but wasn't Jesus the one invited by the sinners to dine with them, not the other way around?""
Yes, and then Jesus smiled for a photo op with them and failed to correct their error.
Oh, wait. Jesus didn't ever do that. Because that would be overlooking grave public and cooperating with evil.
May 16, 2013 at 9:05 pm
Lori posted:
For the record, he's not Joe Biden's bishop either; the VP's home is in Delaware.
Oh, Lori, you're so cute. Don't you know that this game has been the primary excuse for NONE of the Bishops to do their job for years? Thanks for being so innocent, I'm glad there are a few of you left.
May 16, 2013 at 9:40 pm
I still think he loves NY cheesecake; who wouldn't? And he looks like it too; don't you think?
May 16, 2013 at 9:48 pm
Lori thinks we're all "mean". Golly.
I think the greater issue is the desire for leadership and pastoral care from the Cardinal rather than platitudes. Kinda like Lori's comments.
May 16, 2013 at 10:22 pm
It is inappropriate to share negative information about another person that it is not necessary for others to know. That is called detraction. And when it involves ordained persons, ie, deacons, priests, bishops, popes…it also involved sacrilege because, regardless of their personal virtue or lack thereof, they are sacred persons due to their consecration to the Lord. So we can argue about whether sharing all these things is truly necessary to put out there at random in the public view, and whether it serves any purpose or not. I tend to think it does more harm than good by tearing down the obedience and respect we all should have for our bishops. To insult Dolan personally as so many of these comments do is nothing but a sin.
If we would all spend our time PRAYING and SACRIFICING for the bishops instead of criticizing them and wasting time reading and commenting, they would probably all be marvelous saints by now. Why don't we all go spend an hour in adoration before the Blessed Sacrament praying for Dolan, instead of possibly endangering our own souls, and that of others, by tearing him down publicly?
May 16, 2013 at 10:37 pm
Rick @4:40 PM
Certainly likes being a cheesehead.
May 16, 2013 at 10:57 pm
1) sorry about my Al Davis post. Late night back from work. I meant Al Smith, thanks Linda for the correction. Al Davis owned (owns?) the Raiders.
2) Matthew 9:9-12
3) No one is above correction. Also, why would anyone assume that we who criticise do not also pray that all bishops and priests stand up for Truth. Don't we pray for all the clergy at each Mass?
4) Who, if not the laity, will hold accountable the princes of the Church if they do not hold themselves accountable?
May 17, 2013 at 12:40 am
Av8er said…
"No one is above correction. Also, why would anyone assume that we who criticise do not also pray that all bishops and priests stand up for Truth."
I never suggested the Cardinal was above criticism. I did suggest that if people want to criticize him, they should do it with a few facts at their command and ditch the mean-spiritedness. But by far the best thing is to pray.
May 17, 2013 at 12:41 am
Anonymous: so you think canon law is a game?
May 17, 2013 at 3:06 pm
Cardinal Dolan has been trying to have it both ways for the last few years. He is the example of not the Catholic Church but the "Church of Nice" where all we do is "talk" and "dialogue" and as we see in the last 40 years it has not worked and now we are being persecuted. Look at how he handled the Same- Sex passage there a few years back as well as the Al Smith Dinner last October.He is a "go along to get along man" and it is a shame.
May 17, 2013 at 3:16 pm
O my Jesus, I beg You on behalf of the whole Church: Grant it love and the light of Your Spirit, and give power to the words of Priests (Bishops) so that hardened hearts might be brought to repentance and return to You, O Lord.
Lord, give us holy priests: You Yourself maintain them in holiness. O Divine and Great Hight Priest, may the power of Your Mercy accompany them everywhere and protect them from the devil's traps and snares which are continually being set for the souls of priests. May the power of Your Mercy, O Lord, shatter and bring to naught all that might tarnish the sanctity of priests, for You can do all things.
AMEN.
St. Maria Faustina
May 17, 2013 at 5:50 pm
All personal opinions aside – –
On the Vatican web site you will find: Apostolic Constitution "SACRAE DISCIPLINAE LEGES" of the
SUPREME PONTIFF POPE JOHN PAUL II for the Promulgation of the New Code of Canon Law (1983) which states: "Finally, the canonical laws by their very nature MUST be observed".
When Cardinal Dolan refuses to observe Canon 915 or Canon 1399, he is disobedient to Church teaching.
He should resign if he does not fully comply with Church teaching.
May 17, 2013 at 5:58 pm
A Bishop is responsible for everything "Catholic" within his own Diocese.
However, when any Diocese Bishop or Cardinal is aware that another Bishop is not teaching and adhering 100% to the Catholic Faith, and thus causes the mortal sin of SCANDAL, – the offending Bishop or Cardinal should be reported to the Vatican with a copy of the official complaint to the US Papal Nuncio.
Cavorting and having photo-ops with heretics and/or schismatics is scandalous.
May 17, 2013 at 6:05 pm
JO – you are only partially correct. In this case because the PUBLIC actions or lack of appropriate public action is the issue – – – the mortal sin of scandal can exist which causes the loss of Souls.
These are not private sins.
On the Vatican web site search: Code of Canon Law.
Under "Obligations and Rights of ALL the Christian Faithful" you will find.
"Can 212 §3. According to the knowledge, competence, and prestige which they possess, they have the right and even at times the duty
to manifest to the sacred pastors their opinion on matters which pertain to the good of the Church
and to make their opinion known to the rest of the Christian faithful,
without prejudice to the integrity of faith and morals, with reverence toward their pastors, and attentive to common advantage and the dignity of persons."
May 17, 2013 at 6:35 pm
To understand the seriousness of the MORTAL SINS of SACRILEGE against the Body and Blood of our Lord, SCANDAL, and some Diocese Bishops aiding abetting these sins by not correcting those obstinate in public grave sin – per Canon 915 & 1399 – please read:
the "Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition" for the definitions for:
SACRILEGE, SCANDAL, HERESY, SCHISM, also when we are also responsible for the sins of others.
and on the internet read:
"Worthiness to Receive Holy Communion, General Principles" 2004 by Cardinal Ratzinger (Pope Benedict) – http://www.priestsforlife.org/magisterium/bishops/04-07ratzingerommunion.htm
and
" Discipline Regarding the Denial of Holy Communion to Those Obstinately Persevering in Manifest Grave Sin " by Most Rev. Raymond L. Burke.
http://www.therealpresence.org/eucharst/holycom/denial.htm
May 17, 2013 at 7:03 pm
Lori, not only Cardinal Dolan but every Bishop and each of us have the responsibility to correct sinners no matter where they are located. Admonishing sinners, instructing the uninformed, are Spiritual Works of Mercy.
When Cardinal Dolan knows that Sacrilege and/or Scandal are being committed, he has an obligation to talk to the sinner he comes in contact with – teaching the entire truth, including but not limited to heresy and schism.
Although the Diocese Bishop (and if he has to go over the head of the Diocese Bishop – the Pope) has authority to excommunicate within a Diocese – all Bishops must speak the truth in entirety.
Other Bishops from outside the Diocese to see that the rest of the Church is not being harmed – as in the case of a heretical and schismatic politician who pubically advertises him/herself as being "Catholic". CCC 894.
CCC: "1868 Sin is a personal act. Moreover, we have a responsibility for the sins committed by others when we cooperate in them:
– by participating directly and voluntarily in them;
– by ordering, advising, praising, or approving them;
– by not disclosing or not hindering them when we have an obligation to do so;
– by protecting evil-doers.
May 17, 2013 at 7:09 pm
Dear Friends – I'm sorry to take up so much space today, and may not be back to this site for some time.
Each of us can usually find the answers to our questions by reading:
1) Catholic Bible;
2) Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition (CCC);
3) Code of Canon Law;
4) GIRM (General Instruction of the Roman Missal).
The CCC, Code, and GIRM can all be found on the Vatican web site.
For direct links to these and other Official Church Documents, on the net go to: "What Catholics REALLY Believe SOURCE".
Hope I have been helpful.
“In this Year of Faith let us ask ourselves if we have actually taken a few steps to get to know Christ and the truths of faith more, by reading and meditating on the Scriptures, studying the Catechism, steadily approaching the Sacraments.” – Pope Francis, May 15, 2013.
May 17, 2013 at 7:32 pm
Lori,
Your point about jurisdiction is correct, but it was Cardinal Dolan who said he would "talk turkey" to Cuomo. He thus did not defer to the jurisdiction of another bishop. Having inserted himself, he then proceeded to refuse judgment on Cuomo. It's at least inconsistent.
May 17, 2013 at 8:30 pm
Louis, what is inconsistent about that? Cardinal Dolan certainly has the right to speak to or advise or admonish Cuomo privately, and dispute with him publicly (I guess that's what "talking turkey" means), but he doesn't have the right to lay any canonical penalties on him or threaten to do so. As far as I can see, this is the route he is following.
He doesn't have to say "I defer to his bishop" though it might have been better to have done so to make things clear. On the other hand, this might have made the other bishop uncomfortable, because now he would seem publicly responsible for doing something.
If I remember right, the bishop of Albany is Howard Hubbard and he is quite opposed to using canonical penalties in such cases. (Unless he is now retired?)
Cardinal Dolan may have wanted to expose the other bishop to public fire. Maybe this is the go-along-to-get- along attitude others are criticizing. Maybe he is guilty of some weakness here. But this is a far cry from what others were originally accusing him of.