Truth is, I am not really sure. Did he mean me?
(Vatican Radio) Christians are called to proclaim Jesus without fear , without shame and without triumphalism . Those were the words of Pope Francis at Mass this Tuesday morning at the Casa Santa Marta. The Pope also stressed the risk of becoming a Christian without the Resurrection and reiterated that Christ is always at the center of our life and hope. Lydia O’Kane reports.
“Jesus is the Winner who has won over sin and death.” Those were the words of Pope Francis on Tuesday morning during his Homily at morning Mass. He was referring to the Letter of St. Paul to the Colossians in which the Saint recommends we walk with Jesus ” because he has won, and we walk with him in his victory “firm in the faith.”
This is the key point, the Pope stressed: “Jesus is risen .
“But, the Holy Father continued, it is not always easy to understand . The Pope then recalled that when St. Paul spoke to the Greeks in Athens he was listened to with interest up to when he spoke of the resurrection. “This makes us afraid , it best to leave it as is.” Pope Francis said.
Continuing his Homily the Pope recalled the Apostles, who closed themselves up in the Upper Room for fear of the Jews, even Mary Magdalene is weeping because they have taken away the Lord’s Body . ” …they are afraid to think about the Resurrection.” The Pope noted that “there are also the Christians who are embarrassed. They are embarrassed to “confess that Christ is risen.
Finally, said Pope Francis there is the group of Christians who “in their hearts do not believe in the Risen Lord and want to make theirs a more majestic resurrection than that of the real one . These, he said are the “triumphalist” Christians.
“They do not know the meaning of the word ‘ triumph ‘ the Pope continued, so they just say “triumphalism”, because they have such an inferiority complex and want to do this …
When we look at these Christians , with their many triumphalist attitudes , in their lives, in their speeches and in their pastoral theology, liturgy, so many things, it is because they do not believe deep down in the Risen One. He is the Winner, the Risen One. He won.“This, the Holy Father added, is the message that Paul gives to us ” Christ “is everything,” he is totality and hope , “because he is the Bridegroom , the Winner ” .
Again, I admit that I don’t really understand to whom the Pope refers.
I know that that in the past, progressives have used the term ‘triumphalist’ as a derogatory term for traditionalists. If this is the Pope’s intent, I am just as confused as alarmed.
First let me say, I am not a fan of this style of speaking. The use of shortcut terms with a history of derogatory use does not seem fitting for use by the Holy Father. Additionally, the true target of his critique is obscured by its use. I have been reading around to try and see if anyone had more insight than I, but it seems that the confusion is general.
“They do not know the meaning of the word ‘ triumph ‘ the Pope continued, so they just say “triumphalism”
I suppose if this were true, that certain Christians repeatedly used the word triumphalism as their banner, this general confusion woudl not exist.
When we look at these Christians , with their many triumphalist attitudes , in their lives, in their speeches and in their pastoral theology, liturgy, so many things, it is because they do not believe deep down in the Risen One. He is the Winner, the Risen One. He won.
Reading these specific words, I think they could easily apply to progressives within the Church who think that the simple message of Christ’s birth, death, and resurrection and the redemption offered to us is insufficient. They believe that more is needed, that it is their human creativity that is needed to seal the deal. This attitude is reflected in their pastoral theology and constantly reinvented liturgy.
Alas, I doubt that this was the Pope’s intended target.
If his real target is traditionalists, I think it would be better if he just said so. If traditionalists are the target, as many suspect, then I don’t think that the critique hits its mark. For sure, there may be some few on the fringes that think every action of the Church infallible and put the ‘triumph’ of the Church ahead of the ‘triumph’ of the Resurrection, but I do not see this is not mainstream traditionalist thought. If aimed at a fringe subset of a subset, the critique hardly seems worth it and might serve to unfairly label many.
I am particularly alarmed by the Pope’s reference to ‘triumphalist’ liturgies. Are we to suppose that anyone attached to the Extraordinary form should now be suspected of ‘triumphalist’ tendencies.
All in all, I do not see these comments as clear and their murkiness serves only to muddy.
September 11, 2013 at 6:04 pm
I've stopped trying to work out what Pope Francis means. Frankly, his words could mean anything to anybody.
September 11, 2013 at 6:21 pm
First of all, I think that you should stop seeing Pope Francis, or any Pope, through a political lens (political here is a metaphor — I'm not referring to political party). If we believe, as we are supposed to believe as Catholics, that the choice of Pope is inspired by the Holy Spirit, then we should interpret whatever any pope says in that spirit, and with humility. What is the Pope trying to say to ME — not to my liturgical preferences, not to my style, not to my theology, even — but to ME. Christianity IS relationship with God. What is Pope Francis trying to say to us about that? I don't have an answer, but I was disturbed by the tone of what you wrote. As Padre Pio said, Pray, Hope, and Don't Worry. And as I say, God is in charge,not us. Let him BE in charge.
September 11, 2013 at 6:39 pm
This is one reason why it's best to just consider oneself a Catholic, and not have a sectarian attitude where one considers oneself some special subset–you can be accused only of your own sins and not feel guilty by association or feel you are being accused of sins you did not commit when you are not named.
I read the Pope's message and he is contrasting what he calls "triumphalism" with the idea that it is Christ who has triumphed, not me/us. He then attributes such a belief to a subordination or a lack of belief in Christ's victory. Since I can sincerely say I don't do this, I take no offense and can consider the admonishment not for me (except as a warning not to become that way).
It is good for those who are upset by the Pope's words here to heed St. Jerome's advice to Rufinus:
"When anything is written against some particular vice, but without the mention of any name, if a man grows angry he accuses himself. It would have been the part of a wise man, even if he felt hurt, to dissemble his consciousness of wrong, and by the serenity of his countenance to dissipate the cloud that lay upon his heart."
September 11, 2013 at 6:46 pm
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September 11, 2013 at 7:15 pm
I have to agree with "Gently," even though I do what "Wreaklamation" says and try not to view the Pope's comments through a "political" lens. I don't think Patrick had a "tone" — I think many of us are basically unsure what the Pope is saying and what he means on many occasions. So I've found myself pretty much not paying attention to anything he says; instead, putting my attention on my daily prayers, the Bible, and older Christian writings (anything from the first century through Pope Benedict XVI).
September 11, 2013 at 7:18 pm
I don't think that the extraordinary form is liturgical triumphalism. The liturgical abuse found in "We Are All Saints by How Much We Smile Catholic Community" rings far more triumphal than anything I've seen in the truly humble Latin Mass community in my area. It sounds more like megachurch, Gospel of Prosperity than
I think that you are seeing things that aren't there, grasping at slights that were not intended at you and turning a pope given to us as a Holy Father by the Holy Spirit into a perceived adversary. Not every remark the man makes needs to be mapped onto a trumped up "traditionalist vs novus ordo" conflict. It doesn't do justice to any of us.
September 11, 2013 at 7:35 pm
Have to agree with Genty & KCKim – Pope Francis is often incomprehensible in these daily sermons. I'm sure he knows what he means, but unfortunately no-one seems to have had the nerve to tell him that he's not a good extempore preacher and that a little careful preparation and clarity of thought would help.
As it is, his woolliness lends itself to interpretations which may be far from what he intended.
Never mind, he was clear enough on the day of fasting and prayer.
September 11, 2013 at 7:36 pm
Have to agree with Genty & KCKim – Pope Francis is often incomprehensible in these daily sermons. I'm sure he knows what he means, but unfortunately no-one seems to have had the nerve to tell him that he's not a good extempore preacher and that a little careful preparation and clarity of thought would help.
As it is, his woolliness lends itself to interpretations which may be far from what he intended.
Never mind, he was clear enough on the day of fasting and prayer.
September 11, 2013 at 7:57 pm
Lots of pride on this blog from people who think they know better than the Church. You guys take some Papal statements you think you know theology. Dangerous.
September 11, 2013 at 8:20 pm
Meet the new Pope same as the old Pope.
Here is now Bishop Emeritus Ratzinger in 2007 prior to his abdication;
..Along this road, we must grow with patience and we must now, in a new way, learn what it means to renounce triumphalism.
The Council had said that triumphalism must be renounced – thinking of the Baroque, of all these great cultures of the Church. It was said: Let’s begin in a new, modern way. But another triumphalism had grown, that of thinking: We will do things now, we have found the way, and on it we find the new world.
But the humility of the Cross, of the Crucified One, excludes precisely this triumphalism as well. We must renounce the triumphalism according to which the great Church of the future is truly being born now. The Church of Christ is always humble, and for this very reason it is great and joyful.
Razing the bastions and repudiating the Church as it was prior to V2 has been our daily bread since the beginning of V2 – the revolutionary rocket that destroyed Catholic tradition – and yet still we find a majority of conservative catholics shocked to see a Pope starkly identify the reality of that progressive program.
The Triumphalism that is hated in the highest echelon of the Church is the Pre-V2 Triumphalism that asserts that Holy Mother Church is the one, true, Church outside of which there is no salvation and so that is why the modernists and their progeny, the new theologians, so rapidly accepted the new ecclesiology that will not tolerate such offensive-to-ecumenism definitions and instead changes the teaching in Mystici Corporis that the Catholic Church is the one true church into the new Lumen Gentium teaching that the church of christ subsists in the catholic church but also in other churches too.
Now, the CDF, then under the control of Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, issued differing definitions of subsitit and yet the confusion remains today
http://www.ts.mu.edu/readers/content/pdf/69/69.1/69.1.6.pdf
September 11, 2013 at 8:24 pm
Dear Wreklamation If we believe, as we are supposed to believe as Catholics, that the choice of Pope is inspired by the Holy Spirit…
That is not Catholic Doctrine and, in fact, such a claim is contrary to Catholic Doctrine for Grace can be either accepted or rejected; that is the Gelaro-Wearers can choose either to accept or reject such proffered guidance from the Holy Ghost.
All one has to do to disprove such a claim is to identify more than a few Popes who were complete and utter disaster for the Church
September 11, 2013 at 8:44 pm
Its confusing, for sure. I always gauge these things by checking out the combox over at Rorate Ceali. They dont like his comments, thats for sure!!!
September 11, 2013 at 8:52 pm
First of all, I think that you should stop seeing Pope Francis, or any Pope, through a political lens (political here is a metaphor — I'm not referring to political party..
Dear Wreaklamation.
Pope Saint Pius X anticipated your objection:
For the true friends of the people are neither revolutionaries nor innovators, but traditionalists.
September 11, 2013 at 8:57 pm
I would prefer he just say things straight up as well – I don't understand who or what he means half the time. I'm not sure if it is the fault of his 'editors' or what. I'm tired of the ambiguity and everything left open to interpretation.
I agree with what you wrote: "If his real target is traditionalists, I think it would be better if he just said so. If traditionalists are the target, as many suspect, then I don't think that the critique hits its mark."
September 11, 2013 at 9:19 pm
@Terry – you're right as usual. Much more damage has been done to human relationships over the centuries by misunderstanding than by a clear statement of opinion.
And @I am not Sparticus – thank you again for pointing out the fallacy that the Holy Spirit chooses, or indeed approves of, the election of any pope. A pope is "given" to us by the Holy Spirit only insofar as the Cardinals acquiesce to the counsel given them by the Spirit. That they are free to accept or reject this counsel is an integral part of man's free will.
September 11, 2013 at 9:23 pm
How much of this is what he says vs. how it's translated? I thought Pope Francis didn't speak English. Anyone who speaks more than one language knows things really are often lost in translation…
September 11, 2013 at 10:46 pm
Sometimes the people who shout the loudest are doing so in order to drown out their own doubts about their professed beliefs. I.e., the most triumphal-sounding could really be just be verbally battering to cover their lack of faith.
And what Carolyn said. I've become very mistrustful of reporting.
September 11, 2013 at 10:59 pm
The Vatican Radio has another link to what he has said in the past about 'Triumphalism'. I think it helps understand what is written above…
http://en.radiovaticana.va/news/2013/05/30/pope__says_triumphalist_church_is_not_of_christ_/in2-696654
September 11, 2013 at 11:06 pm
Translation can always be an issue, but…
When I view the Pope's words through the various ideological lenses of modern society, they can be confusing. When I try to pigeon-hole him into this or that ideological school, his words can be distressing. But when I stop, when I listen with my Catholic ears, his words tend to make pretty clear sense. When I stop listening to his words in order to find whether he agrees or disagrees with *me*, and just listen to what he has to say, there is so much there.
We have the tendency to put the focus on ourselves. When I read the above from our Holy Father, I see a warning against those who revel in how Catholic they are, how beautiful their churches and liturgies, how ordered their communities, and how exult in the "triumph" of how all this shows their status as the elect. But I also see a warning against those who are always patting themselves on their backs for their "true" Christian faith, their enlightened faith, how other people know they are Christian by their love. Both tenancies, and thousands others, lose sight of Christ as they revel in their Christianity. They allow the good – beauty in worship, love for neighbor, whatever – to distract them from the great that is God and can lose sight of the fact that the only reason they are saved is because they are sinners who needed salvation.
September 12, 2013 at 12:37 am
I think that the Triumphalists may well refer to progressive liturgical abuses in South America where the Pope is from. See the attached video of a circus mass, with circus music, a carousel and roller-blading Angels, all performed in the presence of a South American Bishop! It looks "triumphal" and fails to recognize the power of the resurrection.
http://wdtprs.com/blog/2013/07/when-clowns-attack/