Is it too late for me to become an atheist? Do I have sign somewhere?
Pope Francis has told us that all that is needed for atheists to get to heaven is to follow their own malformed consciences.
I really wish I knew this earlier. I would have avoided a lifetime of difficult Truths in favor of my conscience.
My old unformed conscience, it turns out, was fairly forgiving of many things. That seems much easier.
It may be easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God. But it is easier still for an atheist to get to heaven.
Of course, it is possible for an atheist to get to heaven but it would seem to me that it is immensely difficult without faith and sacrament. Generalizing it as in such a way will not be interpreted correctly by most.
The Pope makes it seem simple. How many atheists do you know that
think they follow their conscience? Why believe if that is sufficient?
It is like saying “All you need to do to get to the Hall of Fame is bat .500 over a 10 year career (while blind)”
So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of jhe Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. No no, stay. Just kidding.”
September 13, 2013 at 2:57 pm
I think Fr. Z is wrong on this issue. The heated and exasperated tone of his post kind of gives that away. I also have yet to hear a peep from him on the bizarre statements regarding Vatican II and the Jews.
Francis needs an editor.
September 13, 2013 at 3:47 pm
So atheists wil be saved, huh? Better think again. Atheists are culpable for their ignorance
http://tinyurl.com/kqrfdpq
September 13, 2013 at 7:10 pm
Athanasian Creed
1. Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith;
September 13, 2013 at 11:32 pm
One more clarification on the VII usage of "unknown god".
The "unknown god" was identified by Paul as our God.
His audience was of Athenians authentically searching for Truth. They worshiped and had faith in the Unknown God. Paul calls them very religious people. He became a light to them in their ignorance as the Church should.
They were given a choice by Paul to accept the revelation of the Church on the identity of God.
The argument that VII is speaking of faithless atheists with the reference to an "unknown god" is obviously false.
September 14, 2013 at 4:04 pm
I always suspected that Islamic terrorist with body bombs would get to heaven because they followed their conscience.
September 14, 2013 at 8:18 pm
Mr. Patrick Archbold,
You are doing a lot more harm than good to the Church with your comments, I understand that you think you are more catholic than the pope and everybody else and your intentions might be good, but bashing the pope is not going to help. Do you think that something will change? do you think the pope is going to re-frase what he said because of your post? the only thing you are getting out of this is to discourage and divide catholics. There is 1 million things that you can criticize in the world today. Attacking and exposing the Holy Father's comments and taking them out of context is not going to help the church, I think that you should keep your comments and pray for your pope if you are really concern about his comments, but I don't think you are, you just want to make sure that everybody knows that you are better and more catholic than the pope.
I follow your blog and I used to like it, but I'm tired of your arrogance and attacks to the church…YES attacking the pope is attacking the church. I'm done with this blog. May God bless you.
September 15, 2013 at 6:15 pm
Actually commenting on the Pope's words and actions is NOT attacking the Pope or the Church. It is called critical thinking. Too many people use the old term More Catholic Than the Pope to make excuses for what appears baffling off many Catholics. I also am tired of the constant explanation and clarifications. Even Bishop Tobin has spoken publicly about Francis and this was on a different issue.
September 15, 2013 at 6:53 pm
Katalina: Yes, Bishop Tobin recently spoke publicly criticizing the Pope ~ something we sure don't see very often at all. I think Archbishop Chaput also had something to say about the HF.
Daniel Tataje: Perhaps you'd be happier over at Fr. Z's blog.
September 15, 2013 at 8:19 pm
The Pope must understand that his statements are broadcast via print throughout the world.
He has to understand that the Church is losing many Catholics on an annual basis – due to relativism.
Relativism means that one Faith is just as good as another, and there really is no right or wrong depending on an individual's conscience.
Pope Francis needs to tend his own Catholic flock.
September 15, 2013 at 8:26 pm
Although we must always be respectful, we do not have to agree with the Pope on matters that are not Faith and Morals.
In fact when in doubt, read the "CATECHISM of the CATHOLIC CHURCH, Second Edition" for the truth of what the Church teaches. This is especially important when any Clergy makes a statement that does not jive with what you believe to be true.
For quotes from our Popes about the CCC go to: "What Catholics REALLY Believe SOURCE".
http://whatcatholicsreallybelieve.com/
We each must make a concerted effort to accurately KNOW our Faith.
September 16, 2013 at 1:54 am
Patrick,
I've noticed lately that you have become exasperated with Pope Francis and you seem to have been sucked in by the first reports of a news media that would like nothing more than the Catholic Church to implode. The newest "Atheist" flap is an example. "God forgives those who follow their consciences," is not in the translation given by ZENIT, a far more authoritative source than you were using. In fact, Pope Francis has said nothing different than what we have always believed. That's why I'm finding it amazing that some who are "traditional" are beginning to make the same crazy comments about a pope's orthodoxy that the "liberals" made about Pope Benedict's comments: comments equally mistaken. It is a serious thing for a Catholic to question another Catholic's orthodoxy, much less the Pope's. You have one of the best blogs in cyber-space. Please give this Pope a chance. Nothing he has said has violated orthodoxy. Nothing he has said has even come close to it. He cannot help that the reporters covering him do no research and do not even know what Catholic teaching is. Thanks. Msgr. Eric R. Barr, Vicar General, Diocese of Rockford, Illinois.
September 16, 2013 at 3:36 pm
Does the Holy Father need a spin team assigned to clarify his every word? What I find frustrating is that the Pope took the bait and ran with it. He was set up. Theological debates over the the philosophy of Hans Ur von Balthazar are important. But, they should remain within the lecture halls. Otherwise, the public at large (with little knowledge of the subject) can get the wrong impression. If I'm not mistaken, many Catholics grew confused with Pope JPII's statements concerning the "infinite" mercy of Christ. The Encyclical Dominus Jesus however clarified things. It is our hope that all get to Heaven. However, Catholic Dogmatic theology says otherwise. The Pope being the leader of the RCC should chose his words and venues very, very carefully; he should write in clear, precise prose that leave little doubt or confusion. I write this with the assumption that the Holy Father was either misunderstood or his words didn't translate well, or the Church's detractors went to out of their way to spread confusion.
Last week wasn't a good week for the Vatican. The Vatican Sec of State gave a "signal" that the RCC may allow priests to marry as a matter of policy. However, the SS never said that. He just re-iterated what most Catholics already knew. But why bring it up at all.
If these public misfires continue, one wonders if we are in fact not going back to 1968. I certainly hope not.