I can’t say I am surprised, but I am disappointed.
Pope Francis has made what can only be called disparaging comments about the Traditional Latin Mass and its adherents.
Rorate Caeli reports that the Pope made comments to a Czech Bishop during his ad limina visit those who value and esteem the extraordinary form of the liturgy are merely caught up in a momentary fashion and thus as Pope he does not need to pay attention to them. Yup.
[Abp. Jan Graubner speaks:] When we were discussing those who are fond of the ancient liturgy and wish to return to it, it was evident that the Pope speaks with great affection, attention, and sensitivity for all in order not to hurt anyone. However, he made a quite strong statement when he said that he understands when the old generation returns to what it experienced, but that he cannot understand the younger generation wishing to return to it. “When I search more thoroughly – the Pope said – I find that it is rather a kind of fashion [in Czech: ‘móda’, Italian ‘moda’]. And if it is a fashion, therefore it is a matter that does not need that much attention. It is just necessary to show some patience and kindness to people who are addicted to a certain fashion. But I consider greatly important to go deep into things, because if we do not go deep, no liturgical form, this or that one, can save us.”
Besides being completely wrong, that the Pope is so disrespectful of the reasonable desires of so many good and faithful Catholics it is staggering in its coarseness and dismissiveness.
Not to mention, such an attitude is diametrically opposed to the attitudes and pronouncement of his Holiness Pope Benedict XVI.
I know that I have probably misinterpreted our humble Pope’s meaning and that the problem is me. For sure, the Pope seems to think that I am the problem. Please forgive me, I only speak Promethean.
February 16, 2014 at 8:11 pm
I am quite surprised that this blog actually allows for dissenting. Quite a few people like the TLM but do not like the people there. That is exactly my experience. I have submitted many an article to a Trad outfit and they never publish it. It is a dangerous thing to outright oppose the pope just because he does not run after the Trads. While they are a few things I don't understand I must nevertheless say he is the pope not the Trads. I appreciate that this site allows opposing view points.
February 16, 2014 at 8:20 pm
Pope Francis speaks only Spanish. I prefer to give him the benefit of the doubt, since imprecise — and downright scandalous — paraphrasing and foreign language interpretations of his impromptu remarks have stirred up false controversies. That said, the Latin Mass is as valid as any other when an ordained Catholic priest is faithful to the prescribed rubrics. Of the Christians, first century observers noted, "See how they LOVE one another!" Today, is it, "See how THEY love one another?" We all need to examine our hearts and be converted anew to the Truth of Jesus Christ.
February 16, 2014 at 8:25 pm
The Pope is humble, because HE said so.
February 16, 2014 at 8:33 pm
Kaf123, The point is that the pope can still do lots of damage to the Church and be insulting to many people without changing doctrine. You stand by his insulting and demeaning comments to traditionals and his "liberal-speak" which has earned him the popularity of the liberal media, gay groups, etc?
February 16, 2014 at 8:40 pm
FAITH
FASHIONISTA
"Old Mass? Just a kind of fashion!"
When Masses were mellow
Every Priest, a real fellow
No need to remember when
‘Cause ev’ry thing old is new again.
Daily, the Sacrifice of the Mass
What-a-ya know, it didn’t pass
We still pray now like they did then
Ev’ry thing old is new again.
Get out your rosary, your black and white veils
Let’s go backwards as the modern mess fails
And the Latin words you thought were long dead
You’ll find in your missal, English black, Latin red.
Don’t throw the past away
It’s your foundation as the new fashions sway
The True Faith’s intended, intended for men
When ev’ry thing old is new again.
So get your rosary, your black and white veils
Put it in backward when forward fails
Leave the new fashion designers alone
Be the Faith’s fashionista on your own.
And don’t throw the past away
Absolute Truth will forever stay
“Behold! I make all things new.” so then…
Ev’ry thing old is new again!
February 16, 2014 at 9:02 pm
People like Lynda show how correct the Pope is in his statement to the bishop. Is Lynda aware of Pius XII's Holy Week changes that anticipated in many ways the mass of Paul VI? Is she aware of Pope Pius XI's encouragement of "dialogue" masses and his permission for the use of the vernacular? "Traditionalists" knowledge of liturgical history is generally sorely lacking.
February 16, 2014 at 9:36 pm
Yes, I'm aware. But again you are distracting from the issue. Ad hominems are not an argument. Sacrosanctum Concilium of the VII Council proposed some use of vernaculars but maintenance of Latin for most of the Mass, and confirmed that Latin is the language of the liturgy in the Latin rite of the Church. Ad orientem and Gregorian chant were confirmed as the norm.
February 16, 2014 at 9:22 pm
Does anyone else find it ironic that the whole Vatican II – era push for the Novus Ordo had its theological underpinning in the "Ressourcement", an attempt to 'return to the sources'; i.e., the Patristic age and rediscover the Church Fathers? The introduction of novelty was performed under the guise of a return to old traditions. Now that those novelties have wiped out generational memory, any talk of returning to tradition is scorned as fashion by those very same change agents.
The Greek root of the word διάβολος means to insinuate things against; to put in a bad light, slander, calumniate. The Latin word is diabolus; in English, diabolic.
February 16, 2014 at 9:24 pm
And the Mass as implemented is nothing like what was proposed by Vatican II (Sacramentum Concilium).
February 16, 2014 at 9:43 pm
And as has always been taught by the Church, innovations can never be part of the Tradition of the Faith.
February 16, 2014 at 9:40 pm
New Catholic. You are not the messenger, just a blogger, and rather grumpy usually.
Please quit believing everything that pope Francis said 3rd or 4th hand in another language. The translations have been awful. I just try to be a faithful Catholic and believe that our traditions are important to preserve, but we also have to learn to evangelize, as some one said, and LOVE one another.
February 16, 2014 at 10:14 pm
anneg,
All your name calling is in the name of love? Splinter meet log.
February 16, 2014 at 10:16 pm
It is sad indeed to read the animosity of those who write here of their fellow Catholics. If you do not have a desire for the Tridentine Mass, the"Mass of All Times" the Extraordinary Form of Holy Mass, then just do not go. If it is onerous for you to wear a mantilla then don't, leave that for the rest of us who do, As an 'oldie', I never cease to feel awe when I see the numbers of young, educated men and women who have 'discovered' and attend the Latin Mass. Here in Australia, as I remember in Canada, that is where the numbers are growing. Contrasting that to my attending N.O. Mass in Ireland some months ago, and in the Nederlands, and Spain, (Latin Mass scarce thanks to many bishops disobeying the direction of Pope Benedict XVI)), hardly any young people attend any more. That is the reality. I attend N.O. on week days, but not on Sundays because of the disrespectful noise and distractions and choice of music. I drive close to an hour in traffic to get to the Tridentine on Sundays. Many others drive much longer distances with their children too. Young people are meeting and marrying in the traditional, having their babies….and so the faithful grows in number. We pray our Holy Father, Pope Francis, will have the Cardinals and Bishops inform him of the faithfulness of those whom he is reported to say follow 'fashion'. St. Catherine of Sienna and Venerable Pope Pius XII, intercede for the Church given to us by Christ Himself.
February 16, 2014 at 11:33 pm
That's true about Ireland. I live there.
February 16, 2014 at 10:24 pm
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February 16, 2014 at 10:24 pm
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February 16, 2014 at 10:25 pm
Innovations like what? Tradition with a lowercase "t?" The Latin Mass is not first century worship so it must have, at one time, been new itself. My only point of contention is the elitism I see (maybe like Pope Francis?), not the value or validity or whatever the word is (Remember, I'm new at this.).
February 16, 2014 at 10:28 pm
Pat, no names, just adjectives. Are you not grumpy? I love this blog and read every day. And you complain a lot about Pope Francis. That is grumpy (adjective) .
February 16, 2014 at 10:30 pm
Pat, no names, just adjectives. Are you not grumpy? I love this blog and read every day. And you complain a lot about Pope Francis. That is grumpy (adjective) .
February 16, 2014 at 11:01 pm
Thank you for saying the obvious in that comment, Mr. Archbold.
February 17, 2014 at 1:10 am
A lot of straw men being put up in these comments. Straw man #1: Traditionalist Pharisee. Straw man #2: Traditionalist Snob. Straw man #3: Bilingual Traditionalist. Straw man #4: Mantilla Nazi. Straw man #5: Traditionalist Rumor Monger. Straw man #6: Sedevacantist Traditionalist. Straw man #7: Non-traditional Traditionalist. Straw man #8: Novus-Ordo-hating Traditionalist. Straw man #9: Divisive Traditionalist. Straw man #10: Convert-killing Traditionalist. Whew, that's a lot but I bet there's more!
February 17, 2014 at 1:42 am
Ah, but some of us are blessed to have choices in the liturgies that are all under the umbrella of the Roman Catholic Church. On a Sunday I can attend a Novus Ordo Mass (properly offered too), a TLM, or a Byzantine Rite. Today I went to the Novus Ordo. But I will say that one gets spoiled at the TLM with the reverence that form of worship inspires. There is quiet for prayer before and after Mass. The people dress respectfully like they know they are in the presence of God. The priest seems to always have a teaching in his homily which I greatly appreciate. The Novus Ordo Mass this morning did not have nice music and the incredible explosion of noise right after Mass hurt my ears. Next week I can attend the TLM and will look forward to it in this time of the season leading up to Lent. I embrace this reverent liturgy. But I am active in my Novus Ordo parish and love the priests we have in town. I am a lucky one! And the trads are not snobs!
February 17, 2014 at 2:28 am
I love Rorate Caeli blog. I think sometimes they go too far. But they are always interesting. However I am in a schola and I kept asking for the hymn Rorate Caeli during Advent and the schola director (a very young person) would not let us sing it, apparently because of the blog! We did not happen to have High Mass the Sunday when that is the introit.
I am 35. It would be hard to find someone less interested in what is the fashion. I have always been different. I like the old Mass because that is the only place we are allowed to have so much Latin and the chant which Vatican II says is a treasure of inestimable value which is supposed to have pride of place in the Mass, and because it is very similar to the Mass as experienced by most of my favorite Saints, giving very preciously greater insight when I read their writings and their life. And in getting to know the old Mass I have been fascinated how many Catholic cultural things made sense to me now. The "Tridentine" Mass has shaped our culture for many centuries. I understand the Mass overall better as a consequence of knowing the older form of the Mass. I definitely understand what changed in the Mass after Vatican II in a way that no amount of reading could have taught me.
It is kind of baffling why someone would conclude interest in the old Mass by young people is just some kind of "fashion". Interest in the old Mass in my area basically reflects a cross section of age groups. The young people who attend are not homogenous in their reasons for being attracted to it. There are not enough of them and they do not form a cohesive social group to call it a fashion among them. I think quite a lot of people really do not like and are distracted by modern-culture elements of other Masses available, people appreciate the "timeless" quality of how they experience the old Mass. Some of the young families believe it gives their kids a stronger foundation in Catholic identity because it is so different from any kind of protestant worship. Devout Catholics my age are so spooked by awareness of how everything went crazy in the "question everything, change everything" time during and after Vatican II and such a vast number of people fell away, so many feel the old Mass is a touchstone of and even a help for a more secure and untroubled Catholic Faith, something that wasn't a product of the time of madness.
February 17, 2014 at 4:51 am
There is and has been so much abuse in the Latin and NO Mass, I think the Pope is spot on!