Deacon Sandy of the now infamous Good Shepherd in Wisconsin video has replied to me on Facebook. In fairness I think all people should see his response. Since this is already a public response, I think it is fair to re-print it here along with my brief reply.
Hi. Deacon Sandy Sites here. I am the one who is on the video that your website/blog is lambasting.
I could not find a way to post to the blog so, after some research about you, I found this Facebook page. First I wish you the peace of Christ, the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit.
Having read all the posts, there are some things I wish to bring to your attention.
1) The bread we prepare for Eucharist allows us to experience both a licid and valid consecration. It is unleavened bread.
2) The fact that we do not have kneelers dates back to when the church was build in 1957. Canon law allows for an exception for a Catholic Church to not have kneelers in certain circumstances, including ours when there is a period of 30 or more consecutive years when kneelers have not been present. We have permission from our prior archbishop citing the expense that we – a parish facing financial hardship – would incur, and loss of worship space seating that would be caused by adding kneelers.
3) Our Gay and Straight in Christ ministry, (which I believe started this whole thing and brought us under your microscope), is consistent with Catholic Catechism #2358. We do not condone same sex marriage. We do not condone sex between members of the same sex. We do welcome our sisters and brothers who have been unduly shunned. (As we welcome all without asking questions. Who of us could withstand the judgement of God?) Like Christ engaging with the woman at the well, we begin by engaging in respectful dialogue, and then catechize.
4) I do not think you realize that the video you continue to show is being shown illegally. Given the negative (and angry) feedback generated by the video, we felt it best to take it down. On your blog page you admit to anticipating this and making a copy of it (downloaded it). Good Shepherd owns the content, and YouTube owns the distribution rites via the original poster. Your downloading and then re-posting constitutes a violation of YouTube licensing agreement. We respectfully ask that you remove the video. Your continued display of it is only causing further damage and separation between to groups of well intentioned Catholics who should be praying and reflecting together, and not arguing and condemning. I have said enough. I hope to get a reply.
Pax.
And my brief reply.
Deacon Sandy Sites
1) Ok, that is good to hear.
2) That may be true, but it is not an ideal and probably not be presented in such a manner.
3) That is not something that brought you to our radar but rather added later and I critiqued only you verbiage which I think is fair game. You talked about a communities rightful place in the Church. Not individuals, but a community that identifies with a behavior, not just attraction. I think your language is fair game. I notice also that you do not address your linking to Call To Action.
4) Your video is fair game for discussion, you posted it to promote your parish and your ideals. Now you want to hide from it. The ideas and attitudes in it are wrong and I believe disastrous for the Church. I understand your wish to hide it now, but I don’t think that is fair. This should be in the light. If you will no longer show it, somebody else should.
I will add that if Deacon Sandy wants to remove the video because you are now ashamed of it, I will gladly comply.
If however, he simply wants it removed because he doesn’t like the scrutiny, I think it should remain.
February 25, 2014 at 4:04 am
Wow! Just wow. Deacon Sandy sounds annoyed. 😉
February 25, 2014 at 4:10 am
Just for the record, it's being "discussed" lots of other places besides here.
February 25, 2014 at 4:20 am
This guy seems nice and well-intentioned, but emphasizing what "sets us apart" from Catholic Tradition seems totally backwards. Jesus did not say, "Blessed are the unique."
February 25, 2014 at 5:02 am
If you're facing financial hardship, deacon, do you think maybe you should have passed on the two large video screens and put the money toward those kneelers you can't afford?
February 25, 2014 at 6:27 am
I was thinking just as wkndbeachcomber above. It strikes one as a bit absurd to argue that a church cannot afford kneelers while that same church brags about their fancy big screen televisions. And additionally, isn't it a bit disingenuous to post a video explaining why there are no kneelers by stating how they believe that bowing is more relevant and meaningful in expressing respect, and then to defend that video by arguing lack of funding to build the kneelers? That argument troubles me. It gives the appearance of dishonesty.
February 25, 2014 at 8:32 am
Deacon Sites: Canon law allows for an exception for a Catholic Church to not have kneelers in certain circumstances, including ours when there is a period of 30 or more consecutive years when kneelers have not been present.
There is nothing in Canon Law about kneelers as far as I am aware. I think the deacon is referring to canons 23-28, which deal with custom and its status, but he appears to greatly misunderstand what canon law has to say on the matter. From the video, I can't say I'm that surprised.
And, per GIRM 43, the default position of the faithful during the Eucharistic Prayer is kneeling, whether or not there are kneelers. But again, from the evidence of the video, I doubt the good deacon has even bothered to read the GIRM.
February 25, 2014 at 9:05 am
The parish in question is built more on Sand(y) than the Rock of Peter.
February 25, 2014 at 12:19 pm
All excellent responses and wonderfully summed up by Wendell.
February 25, 2014 at 12:42 pm
I think Sandy deserves some credit for a clear statement in support of the authentic Church teaching.
February 25, 2014 at 12:42 pm
Dear Deacon Sandy, You said, "1) The bread we prepare for Eucharist allows us to experience both a licid (sic) and valid consecration. It is unleavened bread." Well unfortunately Deacon Sandy, leavened vs unleavened is not only consideration, or even the main one, in determining whether your "hosts" are valid matter. To be VALID matter, the "bread" must be wheat alone. This is not debatable. Anything contining more than wheat is invalid. No milk, no honey, no sugar, no anything. Somehow I'm still left with the impression that your parish bakers are oh-so-creative with recipes. Even if I'm wrong, and you are using unleavened bread made from wheat only, the use of such bread is STILL an abuse because it brings with it the probability of small particles of consecrated bread being created, overlooked and trod upon. Please stop it.
February 25, 2014 at 12:58 pm
Here's a thought. If you're facing "financial hardship" try a TLM once a week. The TLM folks are into hardship and will kneel on the floor. (Kneelers are for wusses anyway.) It will serve the twofold purpose of bringing in more money (the TLM folks support their parishes financially) AND affirming a "community" that is some places has been "unduly shunned." What now, Deacon Sandy?
February 25, 2014 at 1:15 pm
And in what Catholic church are the chaste shunned? In every church I've been in, chastity is praised. Unless….
February 25, 2014 at 1:29 pm
Well done, Patrick. God bless you.
Good Shepherd must be scrutinized.
February 25, 2014 at 2:04 pm
The person is trying. I respect that. But individual interpretations of the Bible should be left to the Protestant heretics. We don't strive to stand apart from Christ's Traditions or teachings. We don't embrace communities or agendas that contradict our teachings, but as Bishop Sheen used to say, 'one may be intolerant of ideas, but ever tolerant of people'. We embrace sinners, not communities designed to eliminate or deny sin.
The consecrated host? Thats one I would be eternally careful about. Not a good place to 'express yourself'. COnforming to Christ so that you may decrease, while He increases. I recommend the 'John the Baptist' approach.
If you want to be 'set apart' from Catholic Tradition, there are many Anglicans who are good people and will embrace you. Please don't confuse Catholic Teachings for your own glroification. Christ isnt a tool for anyone's glory. We are His. For Him.
To me the most important part is that they seek to distinguish themselves and be different. THe focus becomes the uniqueness. The buy-in. The show (yes, Ive sat through some non denominational performances). My question to those wanting to make the mass fit the audience is this: Isnt Jesus enough?
More is required? How can that be? Those closest to Jesus probably spend a great deal of time, not being entertained or feeling unique, but sitting in silence with a rosary. Sitting silently meditating. Sitting in a monastery. Sitting in silence with God.
February 25, 2014 at 2:13 pm
In the 70's it was in vogue to take a baked loaf of bread and pull it apart into pieces, which I envisage here. I always wondered about the crumbs…. Jesus Christ was all over the floor. Please use hosts!
My first thought reading the kneeler explanation was exactly everyone else's: big screen TVs???? Kneelers may be expensive… why not have parishioners get together and make kneeling pillows. Many of the churches in CA (LA to be exact) have kneelers, but don't use them after the Agnus Dei. When we visit our daughter, we drop to our knees in spite of dirty looks.
February 25, 2014 at 2:38 pm
I would like to ask Deacon Sandy where is the Parish Priest of Good Shepherd in all this. He appears to be voiceless.
February 25, 2014 at 2:39 pm
I would like to ask Deacon Sandy where is the Parish Priest of Good Shepherd in all this. He appears to be voiceless.
February 25, 2014 at 3:45 pm
Sandy – could we talk a bit more on the kneelers? You've said that the parish can't afford them. But you say that you use "two large video screens"? Are your spending priorities really in line with the needs of the faithful? Your commitment to be culturally consistent may be correct in the use of electronic images, but seemingly, TV, video games, film, represents the worst of our culture and the a/v equipment aligns with the kitsch of our time.
But further, you feel that standing is a societal sign of respect. And you compare the presence of Christ to the presence of the President of the United States – seriously? I agree that that we stand in such circumstances. But the "respect" you feel toward a human being pales to the adoration accorded to the Creator. Awe and numinous are due God in the Blessed Sacrament, not mere human respect. Respect is fine for the president – the high (and mere) symbol of a nation; and we are the nations' citizens, not subjects; he works for us.
On the other hand, if by our conceit we recognize the presence of God in the same societal manner, we are not acknowledging that we are His creation, but that we are His equals. If you believe God is there, adore him, and experience his presence in humility. If you don't believe He is there then don't even bother to stand.
February 25, 2014 at 4:07 pm
For all those crying heresy or apostasy (here or on CM's original post)…
Given Deacon Sandy's written reply I see nothing invalid or illicit in what they are doing. The use of bread (even leavened bread, gasp!) along with standing rather than kneeling have a long history in the Eastern rites, and pre-date most of the Latin rite practices.
It was nice to see Deacon Sandy actually reach out in person to offer clarification. If only the author of this blog was so thoughtful. It appears that this video was found and posted without first going to Deacon Sandy (see Matthew 18).
For those who have a problem with them using video projectors (not big screen TVs) rather than spending money on kneelers there is a big price difference. You can purchase 2 projectors and a couple screens for under $3,000. It would be very difficult to retrofit a church with new pews or kneelers.
Proteios1 said…"The person is trying. I respect that. But individual interpretations of the Bible should be left to the Protestant heretics." What individual interpretations of scripture did Deacon Sandy make? He affirmed the presence of Christ in the Eucharist–even if it's not the kind of bread/host you prefer. And those "heretics" are our separated brothers and sisters.
To overcaffeinated, who rightly points out that Jesus never said "Blessed are the unique." I'd also like to point out that he also did not say "Blessed are the rubrics" or "They'll know you are Christians by your uptight liturgical purity."
Finally, back to blog author Patrick Arnold. Deacon Sandy is correct in stating that your re-posting of the video (at least twice now) is illegal. It's also immoral and unethical to continue posting it after the legal owner of it has asked that it be removed. It is not for you to decide whether it should be removed or remain based on whatever motives you attribute to his request.
February 25, 2014 at 4:33 pm
I'mnot so sure re-posting the video is illegal. There is such a thing as "fair use" for things like discussion of public issues. Whether this meets those requirements or not is an open question, so let's stop playing district attorney. But that's kind of the nature of the nasty interwebs. You post things so that others may view, share and comment on it. Sometimes the comments are positive. Other times, not so much. If you can't stand the heat, stay off the internet.