Deacon Sandy of the now infamous Good Shepherd in Wisconsin video has replied to me on Facebook. In fairness I think all people should see his response. Since this is already a public response, I think it is fair to re-print it here along with my brief reply.
Hi. Deacon Sandy Sites here. I am the one who is on the video that your website/blog is lambasting.
I could not find a way to post to the blog so, after some research about you, I found this Facebook page. First I wish you the peace of Christ, the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit.
Having read all the posts, there are some things I wish to bring to your attention.
1) The bread we prepare for Eucharist allows us to experience both a licid and valid consecration. It is unleavened bread.
2) The fact that we do not have kneelers dates back to when the church was build in 1957. Canon law allows for an exception for a Catholic Church to not have kneelers in certain circumstances, including ours when there is a period of 30 or more consecutive years when kneelers have not been present. We have permission from our prior archbishop citing the expense that we – a parish facing financial hardship – would incur, and loss of worship space seating that would be caused by adding kneelers.
3) Our Gay and Straight in Christ ministry, (which I believe started this whole thing and brought us under your microscope), is consistent with Catholic Catechism #2358. We do not condone same sex marriage. We do not condone sex between members of the same sex. We do welcome our sisters and brothers who have been unduly shunned. (As we welcome all without asking questions. Who of us could withstand the judgement of God?) Like Christ engaging with the woman at the well, we begin by engaging in respectful dialogue, and then catechize.
4) I do not think you realize that the video you continue to show is being shown illegally. Given the negative (and angry) feedback generated by the video, we felt it best to take it down. On your blog page you admit to anticipating this and making a copy of it (downloaded it). Good Shepherd owns the content, and YouTube owns the distribution rites via the original poster. Your downloading and then re-posting constitutes a violation of YouTube licensing agreement. We respectfully ask that you remove the video. Your continued display of it is only causing further damage and separation between to groups of well intentioned Catholics who should be praying and reflecting together, and not arguing and condemning. I have said enough. I hope to get a reply.
Pax.
And my brief reply.
Deacon Sandy Sites
1) Ok, that is good to hear.
2) That may be true, but it is not an ideal and probably not be presented in such a manner.
3) That is not something that brought you to our radar but rather added later and I critiqued only you verbiage which I think is fair game. You talked about a communities rightful place in the Church. Not individuals, but a community that identifies with a behavior, not just attraction. I think your language is fair game. I notice also that you do not address your linking to Call To Action.
4) Your video is fair game for discussion, you posted it to promote your parish and your ideals. Now you want to hide from it. The ideas and attitudes in it are wrong and I believe disastrous for the Church. I understand your wish to hide it now, but I don’t think that is fair. This should be in the light. If you will no longer show it, somebody else should.
I will add that if Deacon Sandy wants to remove the video because you are now ashamed of it, I will gladly comply.
If however, he simply wants it removed because he doesn’t like the scrutiny, I think it should remain.
February 25, 2014 at 4:48 pm
There's always wikileaks…
Many places have individual knee cushions rather than one long kneeler. I'm sure we could find some willing knitters on the tradosphere to make some for the Deacon?
Look, if people feel this discussion is uncharitable, that is one thing. But please don't kid yourself liturgical abuse is okay. You wouldn't put up with this in your parish and don't pretend you would.
February 25, 2014 at 4:50 pm
If Sandy is head of his parish council, then he controls the money and holds the purse strings.
This is an affilitated parish directly connected to other parishes in their community. I wonder, what shennanigans going on. Its the "Sandy Sites" that are concerning.
Why put "his" name on it, if it belongs to the parish ministries. 70 or so ministries do take extraordinary amounts of money. Here's a question. Would this parish exist without it social ministerial enterprises? Or if Deacon Sandy moves on does he take his enterprises with him? Food for thought.
February 25, 2014 at 6:24 pm
Open Letter,
Msg to Deacon Sandy,
In regards to your ministerial practices.
I'm very concerned (overwhelmed actually) by the many points of interests you have raised in your promotional video.
It was quite unsettling.
Discussion and discourse, which you invited, is not over.
Just for your FYI. I usually have enough where with all, to walk into any Roman or Orthodox Catholic Church, celebrate Mass, in any language, with a Spanish, Tagalog, Vietnamese, Chaldean, Syrian, Lebonnese, cultural presence…in either Eastern or Western Rites and fully experience the the Mass. Despite their cultural and regional uniquenesses the accomplishment of, the one body of Christ has been achieved. In addressing your commentary. What is scandalous is why do I need to be explained to, be so prepped and read into your Mass in order to receive the fullness of faith of it, let alone understand it? To the rest of us it is all quite confusing. Mass is not chaos. More questions than answers.
I'll be keeping you in my prayers.
February 25, 2014 at 5:04 pm
Of course posting the video is not illegal. Talk to any copyright attorney on that point.
But frankly, the sick-making phraseology of the Deacon's response is almost as offensive as the content of the video in question. And some commenters here demonstrate clearly that they have a very poor grasp of how the Church is supposed to operate. especially "Tom" who (gasp! – if I may use his writing style) offers unhelpful rebuttals to very serious business. I use the word "serious" because the thought that Jesus Christ Himself, the Son of God is actually present in a valid Consecration should give us all pause. It is very possible that we are dealing with cases of invalid Consecrations in this church but if we assume they are valid then we must address the gravity of how we treat the Body and Blood of Our Lord. Those who are rushing to the defense of the deacon are, I believe, forgetting about the necessity of proper expressions of reverence to something so sacred.
February 25, 2014 at 5:25 pm
I think your reply to him was mean-spirited. If you think this is the mark of a bad parish you ought to see some others. I think they are wrong in some things but not nearly so wrong as you do. It's no wonder we Catholics can't seem to stand together when we are so prone to attack each other. Remember when your site used to be mostly humorous? I think we need a lot more humor in these dark days than we need this kind of thing.
February 25, 2014 at 5:47 pm
In the original video, it stood out to me what Deacon Sandy's justification for no kneelers was. He said, "When the president comes in the room, we stand up." Well, first, with the current president, that's a debatable point; but more importantly, we don't kneel for the president because the president is not God. But God is God, and merits obeisance at a level no president ever could. He is Lord Jesus, not President Jesus.
February 25, 2014 at 5:48 pm
In the original video, it stood out to me what Deacon Sandy's justification for no kneelers was. He said, "When the president comes in the room, we stand up." Well, first, with the current president, that's a debatable point; but more importantly, we don't kneel for the president because the president is not God. But God is God, and merits obeisance at a level no president ever could. He is Lord Jesus, not President Jesus.
February 25, 2014 at 6:07 pm
Assuming the homemade bread is licid (sic), the bigger question is whether it is prudent to use it when distributing to large numbers of people, and taking it to the home bound. The risk of profanation resulting from "crumbly" bread make it a really poor choice.
Also, regarding kneelers – it really doesn't matter if your parish can afford them or not, there is no requirement to have kneelers in our churches. But there is a requirement in the dioceses of the United States to kneel during the consecration. Our own personal opinions about whether kneeling or standing is more respectful are irrelevant. We are called to be obedient to holy mother Church. If she asks us to kneel, we kneel.
February 25, 2014 at 6:19 pm
If you were to take it down, I will just repost it anyway.
February 25, 2014 at 6:36 pm
I noticed in other videos an aged priest and hardly anyone left in the congregation. Perhaps it is because this parish is on the fringes.
I would kneel on the hard floor. Most churches that once removed kneelers have put them back where they belong. Just because some Eastern Rites do not use kneelers is moot because this parish claims to be Roman Catholic. I have indeed heard all these lame ideas in the past, like in the 70s-90s but mostly that junk is passing away. Sadly, millions of souls also passed away from the Roman Catholic Church in these decades.
Bring back access to the TLM!
February 25, 2014 at 6:39 pm
I sent an email to thus parish asking if they have a Respect Life Ministry. The Deacon boasted about having 70 ministries in the parish. So far, no response. Not surprised
February 25, 2014 at 6:39 pm
I sent an email to thus parish asking if they have a Respect Life Ministry. The Deacon boasted about having 70 ministries in the parish. So far, no response. Not surprised
February 25, 2014 at 6:56 pm
@Tom, based on your post here, you're part of the problem.
Many of us that read this blog see the obvious: the loss of Catholic identity has led directly to the loss of Catholic belief. The survey responses from laity recently in the news – including from your neighboring Tampa diocese – shows just how ignorant of and disobedient to Catholic teaching Catholics have become. This state of affairs didn't just happen.
When you go to Navy boot camp, the first thing they teach you is how to tie your shoelaces. Why? Will a war be decided on how you tie your laces? No, they are teaching you discipline, obedience, attention to detail and doing things the Navy way, all to make you over from a civilian to a sailor. And properly trained sailors do decide wars.
Sandy and others like him, including his defenders like you, Tom, have for decades been subverting Catholic identity; first with small, seemingly inconsequential things, and then over the years as the subversion becomes the norm, subverted more and more signs and rituals and the ideas they convey – the ideas of what it means and how it is to be Catholic.
Your journey as an Evangelical and then reverting back to Catholicism, Tom, is yours. God bless you and your large family. You are working out your salvation. But you are the equivalent of someone in a Navy boot camp following behind the company commander whispering to people "nah, don't worry about tying your laces like that… don't worry about doing up your bunk right". You are tearing down things put in place over 20 centuries that form Catholics correctly. You have the idea that you know better.
You do a good job of bonding with the brethren here on the horizontal plane of the cross – but there are those on the vertical plane of the cross: the faithful departed in purgatory who are no longer prayed for; the souls of those who come after us who will inherit a Church in tatters. What about them, Tom? What will be passed to them? Video screens and saccharine welcome committees and a "worship space" so loud with chatter about the latest sale at Walmart that no one can here the voice of Jesus calling from the tabernacle.
The little things matter. For want of a nail, a kingdom was lost.
February 25, 2014 at 7:10 pm
@Tom – ever read the GIRM?
February 25, 2014 at 7:35 pm
Bahahahaha!
I love Creative Minority!
February 25, 2014 at 7:54 pm
D.A. Burke – Yes I have read the GIRM (not straight through).
wkndbeachcomber – With all due respect you couldn't be more incorrect about me or my motives. Not only do I pray for the souls of purgatory, I teach about the reality of it to others. I devote my time, talent and treasures to engaging Catholics who are ignorant of the faith or don't have a meaningful relationship with Christ. Making everyone attend the TLM is not going to suddenly change Catholic attitudes about contraception, divorce, etc. In fact we have a growing number of young Catholics (who like guitars at mass) that have changed their lives to conform to the Church without one TLM. They have encountered Jesus in a personal way and have come to seek him in the sacraments. They've even petitioned our pastor to add confession times, engage in monthly holy hours, and have put aside their contraceptives.
Here's the problem I have with many in the TLM crowd. First, Vatican II and the missal of Paul VI are valid and part of the continuous tradition of the Church. There tends to be a great deal of ignorance for those who claim that there is an attempt to tear down "things put in place over 20 centuries". There are many aspects of liturgical development that have greatly changed over time, especially in the West. The Apostles did not celebrate mass in the TLM form. They didn't even use Latin. If you really want to seek liturgical purity then look to the liturgies of the East which predate TLM and have been consistently practiced with little change since the earliest centuries.
Rubrics are good. I don't want clown masses anymore than you. But many in the TLM crowd fall into the trap of "straining a gnat, but swallowing a camel." I have met so many in favor of the TLM who hold a romanticized version of it. Go back prior to 1950 and really examine the TLM. Most of the laity were completely disengaged with what was happening. The priest would speak in barely audible tones in a language few understood (bi-lingual missals were a relatively new development). So while the sacrifice of the mass was being offered by the priest, few knew what was happening or even paid attention as they remained focused on private devotions.
That's not to say that all since VCII has been a bed of roses. Catechesis failed to pass on the truths of the faith. Many priests shirked their duties in leading their flocks in and to the truth and preached warm and fuzzy feel good sermons.
There is much work to do to fulfill the call of the new evangelization. As long as were are arguing with each other we are not seeking personal conversion. We need to meet people where they are and then invite them to come with us. They won't care about liturgical forms if they think we care more about rubrics than them.
I for one am tired of the TLM crowd judging the faithfulness of other Catholics on how well they conform with their own self-righteous opinions of faithfulness. Standing to receive communion in the hand or liking well done contemporary music at mass does not make someone a "bad" Catholic.
February 25, 2014 at 8:10 pm
My own replies:
1) It is not enough that the bread be unleavened, but that its ingredients are only wheat flour and water. The addition of other ingredients lends doubt to its validity. He made an issue of his defense; he needs to follow through.
2) What parish other than the very poorest would legitimately avoid budgeting for kneelers for more than three decades? His appeal to canon law omits the fact that custom cannot abrogate ecclesiastical law (which would know if he had actually read it, or was being honest in his claim).
3) The deacon's own reply lends sufficient doubt to this ministry's compliance with Church teaching exhorting those with such proclivities to chastity. Associating with Call to Action does not help their case.
4) He is correct, but as his use of the law is very selective — employed when it works for him — it obviously suggests that he has been found out. Any appeals to the civil realm would have to come through the archdiocese as corporation sole, which would open him up to scrutiny at that end. By all means, Patrick, just dare him to come and get you.
DLA
February 25, 2014 at 8:47 pm
@Tom
I never mentioned the TLM. Nor did I mention Vatican II. Or your personal faithfulness. Or your motives. Those prejudices and that defensiveness existed in your mind before you even read my post.
What I did question was your mindset, and it is one of novelty and disdain for tradition. It evident from your characterization of the TLM where you write:
"Most of the laity were completely disengaged with what was happening. The priest would speak in barely audible tones in a language few understood (bi-lingual missals were a relatively new development). So while the sacrifice of the mass was being offered by the priest, few knew what was happening or even paid attention as they remained focused on private devotions."
Please tell me, Tom, how do you know what was going on in the mind of a 1950 Catholic attending mass? How do you know that "few knew what was happening or even paid attention"? You raised your hackles because you imagined I was questioning your faith life, but you have no problem questioning the faith-life of hundreds of generations that came before you. I guess they were "bad" Catholics? That's a charge no one leveled at you, but one you seem to be leveling at others, others long gone and not here to defend themselves. Well, I'll defend them. The 1950's weren't perfect, but Catholics attended that mass. And those people didn't support gay marriage, divorce, contraception, or abortion, like the majority of Catholics do now.
To further push back on your characterization of 1300 years of Catholic worship, it turns out that liturgy scholars now admit that the 'disengagement' you and many others poke fun at was what it always had been: holy contemplation, the model for liturgical prayer. Not according to me, but according to the Catechism:
2711: ‘Entering into contemplative prayer is like entering into the Eucharistic liturgy: we “gather up” the heart, recollect our whole being under the prompting of the Holy Spirit, abide in the dwelling place of the Lord which we are, awaken our faith in order to enter into the presence of him who awaits us.’
2716: ‘Contemplative prayer is hearing the Word of God. Far from being passive, such attentiveness is the obedience of faith, the unconditional acceptance of a servant, and the loving commitment of a child. It participates in the “Yes” of the Son become servant and the Fiat of God's lowly handmaid.’
2718: ‘Contemplative prayer is a union with the prayer of Christ insofar as it makes us participate in his mystery, the mystery of Christ is celebrated by the Church in the Eucharist, and the Holy Spirit makes it come alive in contemplative prayer so that our charity will manifest it in our acts.’
Disengaged? Ha.
So you're tired of the TLM crowd judging, and just to prove it, you're going to judge the TLM-goers and call them a crowd. Instead, why do you not, to use your words, "meet them where they are?" You seem to be falling down to go out and meet everyone else where they are, why not the TLM "crowd"?
February 25, 2014 at 9:04 pm
Tom,
You make many assumptions about "the TLM crowd" and about posters here.
Yes, Vatican II was valid, and so is the Mass of Paul VI (which has, by the way, nothing much in common with the declarations of Sacrosanctum Concilium, which I have studied.)
Not only do I not want clown Mass, I do want a Mass which is not so adapted that visiting a neighboring parish is not a disquieting experience. I'd like less banality in the music (see Benedict's "Spirit of the Liturgy"), and a good deal more reverence, before, during, and after the sacrifice of the Mass.
It is not so much that catechesis has failed to pass on the truths of the faith as that catechesis has been all but absent, especially for adults.
I attend the NO Mass. I arrive 20-30 minutes before the scheduled time, that I may have time for prayer, and a review of the readings, composing myself for Mass. This is why many of us are so unhappy with the happy clappy behavior of many in the pews, especially those who seem to think that as long as they arrive in time to receive, they have been to Mass. They may have been; they most assuredly have not worshipped, in any recognizable understanding of that term.
February 25, 2014 at 10:03 pm
This comment has been removed by the author.
February 25, 2014 at 10:33 pm
*cough* let's all buy Deacon Sandy kneelers *cough*
http://www.safefoam.co.uk/acatalog/churchkneelers_1210.html