Lutheranism is dead, or at least soon will be and it wants to take the Catholic Church with it.
Herbert W. Chilstrom is former presiding bishop of Evangelical Lutheran Church in America. Chilstrom has written an open letter to the Bishops of Minnesota asking them to accept gay ‘marriage’ becuase gays are like blacks or something.
May I share a word with all of you who now lead the Roman Catholic community of faith in Minnesota?
First, I would go to the wall to defend your right to work for the adoption of the so-called marriage protection amendment. Having said that, I must tell you that I believe you are making a significant mistake.
Over my 35 years as an active and retired bishop I have come to know hundreds of gay and lesbian persons. I have yet to meet even one who is opposed to the marriage of one man and one woman. After all, they are the daughters and sons of such unions.
What they cannot understand is why church leaders would oppose their fundamental desire and right to be in partnership with someone they love and respect who happens to be of the same gender and sexual orientation. They don’t understand why they should not enjoy all the rights and privileges their straight counterparts take for granted.
More than a half century ago Father Francis Gilligan spoke out for equality for African American citizens of Minnesota. Though many argued on the basis of the Bible that these neighbors were inferior to others, Gilligan fought tirelessly for justice for these brothers and sisters.
In our generation homosexual persons are subject to the same discrimination. Their detractors often use the Bible and tradition as weapons of choice.
What strikes me about this letter is how utterly juvenile it is in its thinking and how insulting it is to the Catholic position.
Chilstrom challenges the Bishops to “Let me put out a challenge to each of you brothers. Invite 15 gay and lesbian persons from your respective areas, one at a time, to spend two hours with you.”
In Chilstrom’s mind, the problem is that we don’t know and therefore don’t like gay people. If we just got to know them, then all these problems would go away. How utterly juvenile. We know them, we love them, that is why we can never support this behavior becuase it destroys them body and soul.
It is no wonder that Lutheranism is dying a milquetoast death.
December 9, 2011 at 3:49 pm
"It is no wonder that Lutheranism is dying a milquetoast death."
Which is one of the WORST ways to die.
I admit that I wasn't even able to read the letter – the description was enough. Does he really expect anyone to take him seriously?
December 9, 2011 at 4:03 pm
They do not understand why Church leaders are opposed to "gay marriage" / How about because it is a sin!
December 9, 2011 at 4:04 pm
"More than a half century ago Father Francis Gilligan spoke out for equality for African American citizens of Minnesota. Though many argued on the basis of the Bible that these neighbors were inferior to others, Gilligan fought tirelessly for justice for these brothers and sisters."
That's kind of a weak argument, given that the Catholic Church has always been against racism, and never believed it was justified by the Bible. Is he really trying to equate Catholics with racists? All I see in his argument is that the Church was right about racism and what the Bible said about it, so I'm sure the Church is right about this, too.
December 9, 2011 at 4:10 pm
This is the way Lutheranism ends
Not with a bang but a whimper
December 9, 2011 at 4:49 pm
Has this Lutheran gentleman considered the risk to the actual humans he describes?
What kind of Bishop ignores this?
December 9, 2011 at 6:20 pm
ELCA is the Left-o-Wacky branch.
You won't get that piddleswap from a Missouri Lutherean.
December 9, 2011 at 6:29 pm
The ELCA isn't all there is to Lutheranism. I suspect the Lutheran Church, Missouri Synod would not be on board with this.
December 9, 2011 at 6:43 pm
After reading this I think we should agree:
Let's all use the word "piddleswap" at least once this weekend.
Peace!
December 9, 2011 at 8:16 pm
So because one sub-denomination of Lutheranism (and a sub-denomination which has been roundly denounced by the LCMS, the WELS, the NALC and other more conservative Lutheran sub-denominations) has lost it's scriptural anchors and is hell-bent (no pun) on self-destruction, ALL of Lutheranism is dying?
Hardly.
December 9, 2011 at 8:21 pm
Is it too crass to bring up hardware and plumbing as a very logical way to look at this issue? The male and female parts need each other to work together. Screws and bolts. Pipes and fittings. Two males or two females will not work.
Or magnets. You can try to force together the north ends of the magnet, but they will not stick.
Ditto for batteries. You cannot expect your electronics to work if you've got the negatives and positives mixed up.
I don't know why people come down so hard on the Church. I could find countless Darwinist, atheistic reasons why homosexuality just does not make sense. No matter how someone "feels." Wah, wah, I FEEL that I should be able to pop the duracells into the flashlight in the way that makes me most happy . . . but that doesn't mean it is right.
December 9, 2011 at 8:25 pm
I immediately realized that I was no longer Lutheran after the infamous ELCA convention in August 2009. I had been a cradle Lutheran, from a Lutheran family, for 56 years. Catholic now since February 7, 2010.
Dad29 is correct. Lutheranism is split between progressive / orthodox as are most Protestant denominations. FWIW, I wrote about the situation in a piece I called the Protestantism trainwreck.
December 9, 2011 at 8:26 pm
All the relativistic notions, which is to say misguided and deadly notions, about marriage, sexuality, life and authority can be laid at the feet of one, Martin Luther, who made it possible for each individual to champion his own magisterium in opposition to the Magisterium that God established. False doctrines such as sola scriptura have had the effect of establishing the errant notion that somehow all opinions are equal, and that truth is "relative". Sadly, all Luther's children are reaping the disaster sowed, perhaps unintentionally at first, by Luther himself. Meanwhile, the Catholic Church is perhaps the only international body capable of promoting what God intends for marriage and is being lambasted for doing so.
If Mr. Chilstrom, the "I-Know-Better-Than-You" crowd and Lutheranism represent anything it is not a reformation of Christ's church, but a deformation of the Church and the disastrous consequence of having seriously undermined a pillar of western civilization, i.e., lifelong, faithful marriage between one man and one woman ordered to the raising of children.
December 10, 2011 at 12:12 am
Really don't know how to reach CMR's main e-mail address to inform: Please Read!
My wife and I just experienced a wonderful movie called, The Greatest Miracle. It is actually showing currently in select theaters. This movie teaches the Catholic Faith very well. You can read a good commentary from the Catholic League at this address: http://www.catholicleague.org/the-greatest-miracle-is-a-hit/ This movie hit the theaters December 8th; I am sure it will not last long. I would encourage you support it by seeing it and getting the word out. I wouldn't mind seeing it again! You can also view the website at this address: http://www.thegreatestmiraclemovie.com/new/
Thank you,
Andrew
December 10, 2011 at 2:50 am
How timely an article this is.i am in a n exchange with a group of "Freethinkers" who are so vehemently anti-Catholic because of the Church's opposition to homosexual marriages. The argument goes this way:
The LGBT's are oppressed and bullied
The oppression and bullying are a result of discrimination
This Catholic church is at the forefront of this discrimination
Therefor the Catholic Church is the enemy.
I asked them what discrimination are they talking about? Does the church say don't hire homosexuals, don't give them driver's licenses, don't give them police protection from violence, don't let them vote or don't let them live together or hold hands in public? NO on all counts, the church just says marriage is not an absolute right and is reserved for heterosexual couples. So how foes the church's opposition to same-sex marriage lead to oppression and violence? You can't legislate people to behave decently.
December 10, 2011 at 3:00 am
Please don't think all Lutherans suppose this–the Missouri Synod doesn't.
December 10, 2011 at 3:55 am
In all my time serving ex abusers, I never met one who opposed non-abusers. What they don't understand is "why can't the rest of us accept their abusive actions". Typical PC pedantic crap. BXVI was right about moral relativism
December 10, 2011 at 7:54 am
I take for granted only that I am to follow the teachings of Jesus and the Church regarding the natural law and chastity.
A man and woman in the covenant of marriage are chaste with each other in the conjugal relationship and openness to new life proper to their state in life.
As a single heterosexual woman, I am to express my love of others by celibate chastity, either temporarily until marriage with a man, or permanently in witness to the Kingdom of God. This, too, is in accordance with the teachings of the Church.
A single person with attractions to the same sex is expected to do no less than the single person who is heterosexual.
The Church does not abandon or discriminate against homosexuals. She invites them to the fullness of life in Christ. And if any of us, heterosexual or homosexual, married or single, falls short of this fullness, God lovingly calls us back to Him in the Sacrament of Penance.
"That in All Things God May Be Glorified"
AuntieD
December 10, 2011 at 3:16 pm
Lutheranism first promoted the "right" to divorce and re-marriage after a divorce. Should it be any surprise that the moral trajectory of this original sin would lead to sodomy?
December 10, 2011 at 3:51 pm
I guess the Bishop didn't read my post from 2009, "It's the Biology, Stupid."
December 10, 2011 at 10:11 pm
No one has to understand Catholic doctrine, no one is forced to accept it, understand it, or love it. So why do homosexuals want to force the Catholic Church to love, accept, and understand (as "natural") their behaviors? Why will they not TOLERATE this view others have that their behaviors are wrong? Why do they refuse to live and let live?