I was able to visit the Los Angeles Cathedral of Our Lady of the Angels yesterday. More will be said on its architecture in a later post. However, I did visit the gift shop, which has many nice Catholic books and other things. The problem came when I began talking with a man who worked there. His customer service couldn’t have been better. His shiny jewelry and over-the-top attitude was a bit off-putting, but it was California, after all. My friend was looking for a rosary for his girlfriend, and the store worker started asking him about her favorite colors, what kind of clothes she wore, what sort of textures she liked, etc., in order to help him pick a rosary that best agreed with her fashion sense. So far, very Californian, but not a big problem. Kind of HGTV: Rosary Edition.
Then he asked what I did for a living and I told him that I teach architecture and theology, and he said with a casual smile: “oh, that’s great, my partner would love that. He was a monk for 4 years.” Again, this was California, and maybe even the cathedral shop has legal issues about who it can hire and who it can’t. Then I started talking to my friend about one of the architects who was a finalist for the cathedral design a few years back, whose architectural philosophy is radically anti-Incarnational and anti-Catholic, and the salesman said “well, everyone is welcome in this cathedral.” Being cheeky, I said “how about Satanists?” He responded: “Satanists aren’t devil worshipers, you know. I know some Satanists and they aren’t devil worshipers.” So, following up, I said: “OK, then what about devil worshipers? Are they welcome here at the cathedral?” He replied: “Well, devil worshipers are actually Christians, because God made the devil.” Another woman in line chimed in with a smile: “that’s right, God made the devil.” I decided it was best to leave at that point.
Honestly, I couldn’t have made this up. A staff member of the cathedral gift shop might be the first and only person a visitor might talk to who represents the cathedral, as it was in my case. And what do we get? A person who gladly flaunts his open defiance of the Church’s moral teaching and has a positive view of devil worship.
Who’s asleep at the wheel here?
August 26, 2008 at 9:58 am
Anonymous said,
“There’s absolutely no way this guy can be discharged simply because of his omments,beliefs,etc.
would be a discrimination law suit and everybody knows this.”
Oh yeah? Funny, the practicing Catholic or of any other denomination can’t practice on our own jobs, or in the schools, or in just about any other work place, but, oh, the homosexual can. Odd why they aren’t worried about lawsuits.
Matt
August 26, 2008 at 2:04 pm
Bro. Ignatius, you have got to be one of the most naive members of the Faith that I’ve run into these days. To defend those of narcissistic and emotional immaturities is leading them further into darkness and backing their bonding with satan. Good work there brother! Explain it, when your time comes, to the Christ you justify placing in same context with satan!
One simple way to find out if this guy belongs as a rep. to the public in a Roman Catholic Cathedral (and supposedly being paid for it) is to simply examine him due to complaints as to his preaching that the Catholic Church (in THIS particular facade or not) allows satan worship in its teachings or places it in some equal place next to worshipping the Christ that satan is in opposition towards. If he continues and does not recant, then boot him. Get some discernment, brother, and then request some fortitude to combat such satanic infiltrations. IOW, be a man!
August 26, 2008 at 2:05 pm
If I may jump in for a moment…..
I grew up in a suburb of LA and was raised in its churches. As a former So-Cal La’er currently living in the Midwest, I can 100% confirm the experiences related in this blog.
1- Everything the bookstore clerk said is a clear statement of his homosexuality. It’s obvious. Anyone from SoCal knows EXACTLY what he meant. There’s no gray area when it comes to that! To say we’re inferring something that may or may not be true … is… making the assumption that we don’t know our hometown. We’re natives. Outsiders would do well to respect that natives know their native culture.
2- In regards to Satanism and it’s relationship with the LA Archdiocese (and the cathedral in particular), these are common statements and not so surprising if you’re from there. It’s a shock to everyone else, but not to people who have to deal with it day in and day out. In LA, there’s only 2 kinds of catholics…. ultra-ultra-ultra “liberal” (meaning the original true meaning of that term has been so far perverted that it is no longer recognizable) or ultra-ultra-ultra conservative/traditional. It has to be that way, because in order to survive in the middle you would have to be a saint. Most of the rest of us are humans in process of becoming one, so are therefore left with swinging to the other “extreme” while seeking the balance.
The “liberals” fully embrace the “concept” that there are no concepts and to state anything as truth other than what you feeeeel is anathema and not worthy of consideration. What’s up is down, what’s black is white… you get the picture. Not only do they embrace it, but the automatic assumption made by them, is “well, heck, doesn’t everybody else believe the same thing?” It’s a duty for them to instruct anyone not educated in these principles. By the way, LA is 100% liberal, with the exception of law enforcement. They’re the only ones who seem to get it, and even then…. lol, even then the LA mindset is so invasive that they’ll spout the LA party line. Yes, ladies and gentlemen, it is true… there IS an LA party line. This blog is tame… tame… tame. I thought the blogger was understating the matter and communicating in a light and humourous manner, something that is deeply disturbing but not uncommon.
3- For Br. Ignatius, I appreciate your desire to bring equanimity and fairness into a situation that SCREAMS for an answer. I know where you’re coming from, but … this is a situation that SCREAMS for accountability. LA needs it desperately. Mahoney needs to be called on the carpet… St. Catherine of Siena.. where are you?? Bless you in your ministry, and please pray for the rest of us. But please understand that there’s a lot more involved here than you may be aware of. Things that DEMAND clear, open communication of ugly truths.
4- I’m glad I’m in the Midwest. It’s given me the opportunity to chill out for a bit and get out of the frontline spiritual hell that is LA. It’s given me a deep appreciation for my fellow catholics living and fighting there, as well as greater clarity that noone really gets what’s going on there unless they’ve lived and worked there. Everyone in America has had tastes of it, but it’s not the same. Take whatever you’ve experienced and multiple by like…. 1000% … or more.
To the Cali solid catholic crew, I will be joining you again soon. Thanks for hanging in there. I’m not going in blind, and I’m coming back with a fresh perspective and tons of spiritual support. Fellow troops find relief. =)
Sincerely,
In Mary,
m
August 26, 2008 at 2:14 pm
Anonymous said…
It seems that the answer to the oh-too-easy-to-answer question at the end of this goes like this: Cardinal Mahony names the cathedral rector, the cathedral rector oversees someone who does the hiring at the gift shop. But ultimately the buck stops with the cardinal.
August 21, 2008 10:09 PM
———————————-
Seems simple, no??
Nothing is simple in LA. The place is a quagmire of discombobulated goo.
Try this…
imagine yourself walking along a brightly lit luxuriant path, and all of a sudden you step into quicksand. As your body gets sucked slowly into it’s depths (or quickly depending on how much you struggle) and the air is slowly compressed out of your lungs, you begin to experience a sense of vertigo. Dizziness sets in. A sense of unreality sets in. If you can stay clear enough to keep your arm out of the sand, be able to assess the situation, and clearly eyeball a tool to assist you in getting out… you will die.
That… is a metaphor for what it’s like to be a loving, practicing catholic in LA. Calling a spade a spade is one of those tools. Acknowledging the role Mahoney is playing is another.
m
August 26, 2008 at 7:21 pm
‘M’ is correct.
It all starts at the head office holder, in this case Roger Michael Mahony, Hollwood liberal, who, with the help of his twin brother, and older brother, campaigned and bribed his way (to John Paul II – NO SAINT who appointed the vast majority of these criminal enablers)to the title of Cardinal in corrupt the very LA Archdiocese.
Remember there was a thriving pedo-sexual assault ring under Tim Manning, run by his Vicar General (Pedophile Himself) Benjamin Hawkes, when Mahony arrived in 1985, and Mahony did NOTHING to shut it down, knowing kids and teens were regularly being assaulted, other than to criminally cover it up, and beat the statute of limitations on each case.
Mahony oftens touts his liberal credentials in pandering to Latinos (for revenue), that “he was there side by side with Cesar Chavez”, via laity paid for PR Firms, creating the UFW…yeah right, and I have some rotting produce to sell you also.
‘M’, as a name, reminds me also of Judi Dench, in the role as James Bond (Pierce Bronson’s) boss, in her correct assertion.
Yes, indeed, The LA RC Church must be “shaken, no stirred” from the top, to rid it of incarnate EVIL office holders like Rog Mahal Mahony…the worst of the worst…making Bernie Law look quite good by actual body counts and costs soaked to laity from their crime sprees.
I believe it was St. Paul (5:11) to the Ephesians, who remined each of us: “Do no deal in fruitless deeds of darkness, but expose them.”
More recently, Edmund Burke, 18th century historian suggested: “The only condition for evil to triumph is for good men (or women) to do nothing.”
Well, if you are blogging, at least your are doing something, however, ceasing all monetary donations, being diverted to save Roger’s soulless hide, is indeed preventing you from committing a MORTAL SIN.
Go With God, But Keep Your Wallets Zipped Closed Laity!
Ciao e pace,
Albino Luciani
August 27, 2008 at 12:30 am
I realize that I didn't read all of the comments, as there are over 80 of them, and I have 6 kids to make dinner for. Despite my moniker, I have been blessed with 11 children and am a devout, by the book (Catholic Catechism) Catholic. However, I'm very disturbed by how UN-Catholic most of my friends and many post-ers (bloggers) are becoming. It's so…Republican and mean-spirited. Are we going to stand at the door of our Churches and ask Catechism questions of each individual before they are allowed access? Are we going to require that our priests look for an "Imprimatur of Approval Sticker" placed by a spiritual council on each person seeking the Body & Blood of Christ?
It's long been my understanding that God can handle all of this without us. If someone receives unworthily, and knowingly, that sin is on him or her. I am not bothered by the presence of gays at Mass–what better place for them to be on Sunday morning? How hateful for us to condemn them and wish they were home in bed sipping lattes and eating bagels while reading the New York Times.
Honestly, I really don't think Jesus would like us as a group much at all. Supposedly all this bashing is done in God's name, but I don't buy it. And, yes, I've heard all the justifications, but they're just that, justifications. I am concerned only for my own sins and while I allow the priest his homily, I will not become the preacher. I will do what Jesus asked and love God first and others second. He said that was all that is required. Remember?
August 27, 2008 at 4:22 am
"Mean-spiritness" Activist Mom started with The Church, as exsemplified by The Holy Inqusition (now CDF), & it knows no mortal, ethical, or political boundaries, as also exsemplified by Roger Mahony and liberals who practice scorched-earth rhetoric, lobbying, and litigation, far more than independents, moderates, right wingers, and others, on a daily basis.
If there is a better example of a Prince Of The Church, long ago having sold his immortal soul to The Devil than Roger Mahony, I am unaware of it; and when alive, I majored in Church history at The Gregorian.
It is Mahony, and his pedophile and crimnal minor sexual assault crew, as well as laity paid for lawyer tribe, insurance carriers, and PR spin agencies, who perfected and use, on these blog sites, the "Catholic Bashing" and "Gay Bashing" false deflection devices, to feably attempt to draw attention away from their ongoing spree of felonies, all at laity body count and cost, in multiple BILLIONS OF DOLLARS, uncorrected.
There are certainly few poor in spirit or wealth, those who mourn, meek, righteous, hungry, merciful, pure of heart, peace makers, or persecuted, among the current Roman Catholic Curia, or hiearchy.
If you "are concerned only about your own sins" you better stop donating to this molty crew of curia felons, because it is indeed a clear and present MORTAL SIN on your soul, to be overtly, or tacitly, supporting them.
May God Have Mercy On These Criminals, For Their Is NONE Among His Sheep, Saints, & True Chosen.
Ciao e pace,
Albino Luciani
NOT Smiling From Heaven
August 27, 2008 at 4:59 am
Dear Activist Mom–your call is well heard. There are a lot of uncharitable comments made here. However, that does not undo the fact that we are discussing a representative of the cathedral speaking the opposite of what the Church teaches. Certainly everyone is welcome at Mass–provided that they desire to grow in holiness and be conformed to Christ. And if they have no such desire–even the smallest bit–then their attempt is either a political statement or something worse. Loving those who are in error is exactly the solution here, but loving them does not mean allowing them to persist in sin or worse yet, boast of their sin and error in public while representing the Church. It is for the legitimate authorities in charge at the cathedral and the bookshop to deal with this, which is the reason to bring it up at all.
And, by the way, it is mean-spirited to say that “Republican” = “mean-spirited.”
August 27, 2008 at 6:52 am
Anonymous said…
Touche! (don’t know how to make the symbol over the e in that) I take that correction, as you are, of course, correct and I was making an unfair generalization. You also stated “Loving those who are in error is exactly the solution here, but loving them does not mean allowing them to persist in sin or worse yet, boast of their sin and error in public while representing the Church. It is for the legitimate authorities in charge at the cathedral and the bookshop to deal with this, which is the reason to bring it up at all.”
This is an excellent point, but I felt the author was getting off message a bit. If we focus only on this intent, it would be a wonderful focus in all of our parishes. I am unfamiliar with Mahoney; I live in the Chicago archdiocese. I do agree that the Catholic Church should hire workers who are held to high standards of Catholicism…but in our Catholic bookstore, some of the ladies are not even Catholic! That’s right–they’re Episcopalians! I guess OUR Bishop is thinking ahead of himself??? It would be funny if it weren’t so sad. ::sigh::
August 27, 2008 at 8:28 pm
Activist Mom–Episcopalians at the gift shop are not inherently a problem. However, if they start speaking publicly about their own reasons for not being Catholic in a derogatory tone and promote devil worship, then there might be a reason to talk with them about appropriate comportment as an employee. I can be darn sure that an AT&T worker would be reprimanded for critiquing AT&T products and promoting those of Sprint, no matter what his private beliefs are. The same ideas are at work here, although it is much more serious. At some point, something needs to be done about it.
August 28, 2008 at 12:22 am
Truth in advertising should demand a sign at the entrance of the Rog 'Mahal' Mahony, aka OLA:
"Abandon all hope, who enter here."
Dante Aligheri
At the Mahal Gift Shop:
"All through the shadows they come and they go, they all have one thing in common, they've got the FIRE down below."
Bob Seger & The Silver Bullet Band
In the Mahal Sky Boxes:
Reinstate the sign that was on Rog's headstone under date of death: "NOT SOON ENOUGH"
In the Mahal Chopper Pad:
"Sky Pilot! How High Can You Fly?
You'll Never, Never, Never Reach The Sky…"
The Animals
August 28, 2008 at 1:12 am
Partnered-jewelry-wearing clerk asside, the parishoners were absolutely right. ALL are welcome in church. Every single living breathing person is welcome. That is always how it is/was/shall be. We as Christians are called to “preach to all who will listen.” If such people show up to church willing to listen, then we have a moral obligation to minister to them. This does NOT mean we allow them to partake in the eucharist (I for one am of the opinion we should return to the early church custom of having non-Christians leave before consecration) nor does it mean we allow them to use our churches or facilities for their own purposes. But welcome them? Of course. It is our duty.
August 28, 2008 at 2:54 pm
It is interesting that Bro Ignatius has made no reply to what d mac had had said . Maybe someone from a relglious order should think more and look at the facts of what has been shown. Bro Ignatius should concentrate on his vocation and more prayer rather than internet blogs.
August 29, 2008 at 5:18 am
Deusdonat:
"Welcome To HELL, Parson!" Ben Rumson's (played by Lee Marvin in the movie version of PAINT YOUR WAGON)line, to the inviting, but fire & brimstone, Preacher, upon being swallowed up alive to the nether regions, under No Name City.
Your view of the Rog Mahal smacks
of complete self-delusion.
Should you be welcoming armed axe murderers, Jidahist with bombs trapped to themselves to kill Christians (or what passes for them in OLA), how about active pedophiles raping & sodomizing kids in the pews? O, I gues we KNOW the answet on the last example..don't we ROGER!?
STOP DONATING LAITY!