You know, every time we talk presidential politics on CMR, somebody will send us an email or write a comment about ALL Catholics should be supporting Ron Paul.
There are so many reasons why I could never, would never, support Ron Paul.
Here is reason #372. He blames the US for 9/11. Repeatedly. (Des Moines Register via Gateway)
Two weeks away from the tenth anniversary of the 9/11 attacks, presidential candidate and Texas Rep. Ron Paul says that U.S. intervention in the Middle East is a main motivation behind terrorist hostilities toward America, and that Islam is not a threat to the nation.At a campaign stop on Saturday in Winterset, one man asked Paul how terrorist groups would react if the U.S. removed its military presence in Middle Eastern nations, a move the candidate advocates.
“Which enemy are you worried that will attack our national security?” Paul asked.
“If you’re looking for specifics, I’m talking about Islam. Radical Islam,” the man answered.
“I don’t see Islam as our enemy,” Paul said. “I see that motivation is occupation and those who hate us and would like to kill us, they are motivated by our invasion of their land, the support of their dictators that they hate.”
Regarding 9/11, Paul said that attacks against the U.S. from Middle Eastern groups at home and abroad can be traced to the foreign presence of U.S. troops, as well as America’s relationships with dictator regimes.
America is certainly not sinless, don’t get me wrong. But to blame America, for inciting 9/11 is so wrongheaded it is scary. Ron Paul is an Idiot.
August 29, 2011 at 1:18 pm
I'd have to say I'm almost mad at you for posting this. Ron Paul is right. The US backs up dictators OVER and OVER and OVER again and it ticks the world off! Radical Islam is just simply the only group with the intestinal fortitude to attack us BACK.
That said, Islam is only a threat to our faith, not to our nation. Our nation is a threat to itself because we keep doing whatever the bleep we want and it's making the wrong people mad.
Also, Ron Paul is a staunchly pro-life politician. Considering how absurdly rare that is, I'd say YOU sir, are the idiot.
August 29, 2011 at 1:37 pm
I think it's silly to say he's blaming America when he's saying we gave them motive. It's quite different to tie their motive to something we did than to blame us for their action. If I give you a motive to sin and you sin, you are still culpable and probably more so than I, but to ignore that I gave you the motive is silly.
I used to think like you that Ron Paul's ideas on foreign policy were naive at best and I realize it takes quite a change of mindset to understand that they have some merit. But these wars do not seem to be working anyway, i.e., we will never obliterate radical islam, and the fighting only seems to motivate them more.
Finally, won't it be easy to test Ron Paul's theory? If radical muslims still attack us after we get rid of our foreign presence.
Also, I think it's unhelpful to call him an idiot, unless you're trying to bait some of the crazy Ron Paul supporters.
August 29, 2011 at 1:38 pm
blaming the US for 9/11 is like blaming a woman for getting raped because she wore a sexy dress
August 29, 2011 at 1:42 pm
I'm with ThereWasADream here. The American Religion isn't a big fan of creating links of causality between our foreign policy and what comes back to bite us, but there are clear and unmistakable connections between our Middle East policy and the motivation of terrorists who wish to hurt us.
Groups like Al Qaeda have stated these motivations explicitly in the past. It's not a secret. You can question whether they're telling the truth, but Ron Paul isn't even connecting dots…he's just reiterating known facts.
Now where I disagree with him (and most conservatives, by the way) is in the idea that Islam doesn't have a beef with us per se. Islam is a religion with inextricable political inclinations, and their history of conquest and dhimmitude puts the terrorist a-holes more in line with Islamic orthodoxy than the enlightened, deconstructionism-loving Western world would care to admit.
But I would concede that they have far more appealing targets within their immediate proximity than the U.S. And if we got out of bed with the Saudis, who sit atop Islam's holiest shrine, and toned the export of our decadence down a wee tad, I think we'd drop on the list of priorities.
However you want to slice it, you don't attack the mightiest nation on earth in a way that ensures they will hunt you to the ends of the globe until there is nothing left unless you have a huge axe to grind. Our policies are extremely unpopular with Middle Eastern Muslims – particularly our support of the heavy handed Israelis – and I'd wager to say that with the displacement of ancient Catholic communities like the Chaldeans in Iraq after the invasion, or the oppression of the Palestinian Christians in the ongoing conflict there, we haven't made many friends of our Middle Eastern brothers in Christ, either.
Actions have consequences. We need to stop the overseas adventurism. The resentment that we face around the world is real, not just a liberal construct.
August 29, 2011 at 2:06 pm
Ron Paul isn't the only prominent conservative who has spoken out on America's interventionism of the last century. Pat Buchanan, himself a very devout Catholic, is yet another.
The founders of our nation never intended for the United States to become embroiled in the affairs of other nations. And it is no secret that we have engaged our forces in areas where our nation's security was not under imminent threat. What's more, many Americans forget that Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden were once beneficiaries of American aid; the former when in conflict with Iran, the latter when Afghanistan was invaded by the Soviets.
We have taken on an unprecedented debt, and continue to borrow from nations who do not share our political philosophy. (That would be China.) The bulk of the nation's budget goes to two things; entitlement programs (Medicaid, Medicare, Social Security) and defense. I have yet to hear a candidate tell me how we will continue to afford both at the current level of spending. Ron Paul doesn't think we can.
That doesn't make him an idiot.
August 29, 2011 at 2:08 pm
And while we're at it, my friend Steve Skojec is right about Islam. So was Hillaire Belloc.
August 29, 2011 at 2:15 pm
Paul's comments don't blame us for 9/11. As some of the other commenters have said, our presence in their countries provoked the attacks. It's not equivalent to saying a woman provoked rape by wearing a sexy dress at all. I find that comparison highly offensive. It's more like a houseguest who's supposed to stay for a few days not leaving your house for a year. He gets mad when you try and get him to leave. And then he's shocked when you get so mad you punch him in the face.
August 29, 2011 at 2:33 pm
Ron Paul is really a complete idiot. Islam is not just a religion, but an ideology and a political system.
Who says that Islam is a threat only to other faiths does not understand Islam, and is stupid, because there are so many facts and it is all written in Coran and many hadith.
August 29, 2011 at 2:37 pm
Agree with others that Paul talks motive not blame. I think Paul would be awesome domestically for getting us away from the fed and back to a silver or gold standard. FP-wise he doesn't seem to care about Israel. I'm Catholic but I've seen too many 700 Club News segments to be able to accept us letting Israel stand alone against her violent neighbors.
August 29, 2011 at 2:40 pm
I honestly don't understand how one can disagree with Ron Paul on this issue. Recent US Middle East strategy has consisted of three approaches: We prop up some dictatorial regimes, pressure others, actively attack others. All the while yakking about how much liberty and democracy are always great. We act like a obnoxious frat boy intruding on a family reunion (albeit certainly one with its own issues).
I think we should say, if you value these things, great. If you can't implement them in your own country, come to ours and make it better. Otherwise, we'll just provide some support for aid and other non-military humanitarian issues.
August 29, 2011 at 3:03 pm
"Ron Paul is an idiot"
MATTHEW 5:22
August 29, 2011 at 3:12 pm
YEEEES! you finally said it!
Ron Paul IS an idiot! And COMPLETELY utterly wrong about legalizing hard core drugs and as well! Where is he on legalizing prostitution people?! These positions are NOT in line with the teachings of the Church in ANY way.
Folks that don't understand how long Islam has been a threat to all KAFIRS don't understand Islam!
Folks who don't understand that our interests ARE overseas and must be protected overseas don't understand the world.
OHHH and SO MUCH MORE that he is an utter fool about…. The list is nearly endless. And it is impossible to debate Paulbots on these issues, because they tend to possess a unique combination of shallow depth of knowledge of history, hyper-focus on unrelated minutia and generous amounts of inability to listen to something that isn't a conspiracy.
(Too bad, that he is correct on the economy in large measure)
A little bit of knowledge IS a dangerous thing. It's too bad, so many un-formed otherwise smart people support this guy.
Ron Paul will lead us to nuclear war – because that will be the only way we have left to defend ourselves. (Shudder)
Thank God he has no chance.
Thank you, Patrick for the brave post. You will surely now be disemboweled by the Paulbots….
August 29, 2011 at 3:15 pm
I only half-way agree with you. Yes, Islam is a threat to the US, but only because we and the Europeans have allowed mass migration from Muslim countries to our lands. Get rid of these Muzzies and 80% of the threat is gone. Flattening with Mecca, Medina, and Ridydh with some a-bombs will take care of the rest. Scotju
August 29, 2011 at 3:25 pm
I like this take on Ron Paul.
http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2011/08/25/the-ron-paul-story/
JOB
August 29, 2011 at 3:34 pm
Patrick,
You dropped the ball on this post. Ron Paul is absolutely right. He's simply giving an observational assessment of why these groups hate us and have attacked us. It's hard to imagine anyone disagreeing with Paul on this one.
August 29, 2011 at 3:43 pm
THANK YOU!!!! For the love! The whole Ron Paul thing is truly irritating me — no, more than irritating — it makes me ANGRY. Yes, blaming the US for 9/11, legalizing hardcore drugs and prostitution. The man is NOT the Catholic choice. Anybody hear of Rick Santorum? An ACTUAL Catholic (Latin Mass attendee, for those who care). Can't we get behind him? Sheesh, people.
August 29, 2011 at 4:02 pm
Do you Paul supporters really think Islamic extremists need a reason to attack us? They can come up with hundreds of reasons to hate us. And, yes, they all can be summed up as "foreign policy", since doing anything outside our own borders is "foreign policy".
They're extremists. Their reactions are, by definition, extreme. To pick one thing (or a couple of things) and say "this is what provoked them" is ridiculous. Extremists are easily provoked, with reaction outside what would be considered "reasonable".
They are a danger because they are extremists, not because they are Muslims. They are a danger because they overreact to the slightest thing, and the primary reaction is to attack.
The root cause is not our foreign policy. And anyone who blames our foreign policy for the attacks on 9/11 is an idiot.
August 29, 2011 at 4:13 pm
Ronald Reagan funded the birth of the Taliban, and the Pakistani ISI to the tune of about 100 Billion Dollars.
Osama Bin Laden was part of the core group Reagan, as figurehead, funded.
Some former U.S. Catholic Seminary buildings are now owned by groups that are America's enemies; they are using them to infrastructure more of what is to come.
They are no longer 'over there'.
They have converted America from a somewhat Christian Nation to a Muslim, Buddhist enclave.
If you don't fit, they will simply kill you, as they do elsewhere.
Ron Paul is an idiot.
But so are we.
911 was an inside job.
*
August 29, 2011 at 4:19 pm
I have to say, I am so glad you posted this. I have a ton of friends who are voting for him. I have always thought his policies on foreign affairs were dangerous. We were not in Afghanistan or Iraq on 9/11/01 and our presence in Saudi Arabia was minimal. The Taliban "couldn't send missles and didn't have enough gas to even do that" (sound familiar) – but they killed 3,000 people on our soil in 90 minutes. Iran has deployed its Navy in the Gulf of Aden, the Red Sea, and through the Suez Canal to the eastern Mediterranean. They have stated they want to wipe Isreal off the face of the earth. I also cannot wrap my head around the fact that he would not have gone after Bin Laden because we should have let Pakistan handle it. (which is a country that just showed our downed helicopter to the Chinese). He said something like, "what if Bin Laden had been in London?" Well that is just a ludicrious comparison b/c British gov would have gotten him & not let him lived there for years and years. I also take issue with the isolationist approach. He says he is not an isolationist because he favors free trade, but to me that just makes him a non-protectionist, but still an isolationist. In the past when America has tried to be non-interventionist (or isolationist) we have always been brought into other countries entaglements. Did the Lusitania, Pearl Harbor teach us nothing? He also wants civilian courts to try terrorists who have committed war crimes. Again, I don't get that, they have no allegience to the US and do not have protection under our constitution. Just because they don't wear uniforms or call each other comarade does not mean they are not war criminals who should not be tried in military court. Finally I think he would be crucified in a General election for his racist newsletters (he denies them now, but did not in 96 and 01) His own former aide Eric Dondero describes him, as not a Libertarian, but a "sort of POPULIST LEFTWINGER " who “Since 9/11 Paul has become a complete nutcase conspiratorialist quasi-Anti-Semitic leftwing American-hating nutball.” Anyway, I crossed him off my list a long time ago. He would lose against Obama because middle of the road people can't see abolishing the Fed or Dept. of Education etc… (even though I kind of agree with that). Polls now show him close, but after the media crucifies him he would lose.
August 29, 2011 at 4:20 pm
"anyone who blames our foreign policy for the attacks on 9/11 is an idiot."
I certainly don't think that our foreign policy is the only thing that led to these attacks. Islamic extremists and those that support them shoulder the most blame. However, its not like we were strolling down the lane, minding our own business, when we got stung by a bee.
Its our own fault, insofar as we fail to understand Islam (which Ron Paul won't help with, but which candidate will?), and we fail to understand ourselves. We can't just willy nilly go talking about how democracy is the greatest thing ever, while at the same time supporting anti-democratic despots.
-chris