If I knew I was part a grand cover-up and a conspiracy, I would have dressed nicer. Black. Black would have been a good color for a conspiracy, don’t you think?
Stephen K. Ryan of MinistryValues.com has accused me and a number of others of being in cahoots to keep the world from knowing about Medjugorje. In a recent article at the site, Ryan makes the following startling claims.
But across the “Pond” in the United States there is a different view of Medjugorje and the gate keepers of Catholic opinion seem to work almost in a conspiratorial manner to quell any interest or trust in Mejdugorje. The who’s who of Catholic opinion makers, journalist and bloggers are eerily similar in their skepticism and condemnation. Two things the opinion makers have in common – 1. They have never been to Medjugorje and 2. They are all men.
Patrick Madrid, Patrick Coffin, Mark Shea, Greg Kandra, Pat & Matthew Archbold, Jim Akin, Kevin Knight at New Advent, and the editors of Catholic Culture and the National Catholic Register.
I speak with some authority on this issue. Perhaps no other reporter of Catholic news in the United States has personally reached out individually via e-mail or phone calls to prominent opinion makers who write about Medjugorje than Ministryvalues.com . What I have found is that they all talk to each other and they all have basically the same reasons for being “against” Medjugorje . They are against Medjugorje because – 1. To them the issue is one of disobedience against the local Bishop who has jurisdiction over Medjugorje and 2. One of the “Seer’s (Ivan) has a nice house and worst of all he married a Massachusetts beauty pageant contestant.
Now Ryan makes a number of outrageous, silly, and just plain stupid accusations in his ridiculous piece. Let me address a few of them.
First, he colors me as a skeptic and as one who has condemned Medjugorje. I challenge Mr. Ryan to find one negative thing that I have said about Medjugorje, just one. He will not be able to do it. To the best of my recollection I have mentioned Medjugorje three times. One was a joke during the 2008 election in which I titled a piece “Palin Visits Medjugorje” which of course was not the Alaska Governor but Michael Palin of Monty Python fame. More on that in a moment. The second time I criticized bad reporting about Medjugorje by Reuters. And the third was in a serious context in which I explained the peril for the Church in ruling on Medjugorje one way or the other.
Now 3 times over five years is not a lot, I grant you. But I have written about it. Further, in none of my articles have I said anything critical or supportive of Medjugorje. I generally refrain from writing about it because there is little to be gained by doing so. I have found that most of the Catholics who read me on a regular basis have made up their minds, either pro or con, and anything I say on the matter is likely to be misconstrued and generate much more heat than light. I could not change anyone’s mind on the matter even if I had the inclination to do so, which I don’t.
What could I possibly add to what has been written and debated about Medjugorje for the last 30 years? Absolutely nothing. So I choose not to write about it. This decision was in part formed from the reaction I got just from posting the joke about Palin and Medjugorje in 2008. I think I got 100 emails just for that. Half accused me of mocking Our Lady by making a joke and the other half accused me of being a Medjugorje promoter for even posting the video. 100 emails just for that and I think I only had about 50 readers then. Like I said, nothing to be gained by giving my opinion on matters I am highly unqualified to judge.
So in all the particulars of that, Mr. Ryan got it wrong. He states that he has personally reached out individually to me and the others. Nope, never happened. He says that we all talk to each other about it. Nope. Never happened. I did speak to Jimmy Akin about the show Fringe once, but that was it. The other reasons he states, the Bishop thing and the beauty queen thing, are equally absurd as I have never said them in my articles or even in a private conversation with anyone. Not once. Never. And then he calls us sexist. Really. Mr. Ryan is either delusional or a liar.
Last but not least, Mr. Ryan emphatically states, since he speaks with some self-proclaimed authority on the matter, that I have never, that none of us have ever been to Medjugorje. How could he possibly know that? Has he filed a freedom of information act request to procure my international travel records? I have been all over the world. How could Mr. Ryan possibly know whether I have ever stopped in Medjugorje to see for myself? Whether or not I have have hiked and prayed on Podbrdo and Križevac. He couldn’t.
I ask Mr. Ryan to consider an apology to all those he has accused with absolutely no basis. I also ask Mr. Ryan to consider whether or not bandying about such obvious falsehoods with no regard to facts or evidence helps or hurts his ‘authority’ in promoting the supposed apparition site to which he is so dedicated?
April 26, 2012 at 5:50 pm
to patrick
let's try and end the attempt at censorship.
You want to change your posts for using the "M" word?.. You want to change your post that you will discuss anything except Medjugorje? I perceive it as a condemnation of sorts (not worth your trouble etc) You may not think so but I do. that is how it goes. I did point out that you have written excellent balanced pieces on Medjugorje in this combox
If you have been to medjugorje then great.. let me know if it is important to you. We all make some assumptions when we write. I determined and made the editorial decision that all the people I named had not been there because I beat the bushes pretty hard and these things have away of getting back to me. I have (don;t throw anything) have gained some credibility in being accurate in my reporting on Medjugorje.
steve ryan
April 26, 2012 at 6:03 pm
Did I accuse anyone of anything in my M-word post? No.
Your actions are irrational, unjust, and un-Christian.
You have no credibility.
April 26, 2012 at 6:05 pm
Clearly, your fanaticism does not extend to the truth.
April 26, 2012 at 6:11 pm
Mr. Ryan,
I have to say, the two aren't nearly equivalent. You want CMR to change posts because you interpret them to mean something that they did not intend. They want you to change your post because it is *untrue*. Prone to misinterpretation is a far cry from untruth.
Also, you keep making this claim to journalistic credibility. I only studied journalism while on my high school newspaper, but even I know that "I looked and couldn't find any evidence that it wasn't true so I reported it as true" doesn't meet anything resembling journalistic credibility. If you don't find any evidence whether or not someone has been somewhere, you do not get to report as fact that they have never been there. You are, to put it bluntly, bearing false witness.
And so I will re-iterate. When I read accounts like Fr. Longnecker's, I want to believe that Medjugorje is a true apparition. But when the behavior of proponents is more often like what you have presented here and much less often like the good Father's, and there is *so* much disobedience to the Church involved, it becomes much more difficult to believe that the apparitions are from God.
April 26, 2012 at 6:34 pm
to Wine
I am not a proponent so please.
Again your accusation is exactly what my article is about. There is a force – conspiratorial or not – that tags those who write about medjugorje as "promoters" if they write about it without skepticism. -just like you have. Hence nobody dare write about it for fear of the wrath of the "cabal" (sorry could not resist). I am offended by it. and good golly don;t put the truth on Medjugorje on me.
Medjugorje is a great unsolved religious mystery impacting millions. What part of this do you all not understand.
Problem is we feel as Catholic journalists we can not talk about it until the Church has ruled. ABC News though can send their prestigious Nightline crew to see what is going on and REPORT…Not so with the cowardly Catholic press.
This all boils down to fear of the Supernatural. Fear that Lame Stream Media will make fun of more superstitions.
Pope John Paul said 'We have lost the sense of the supernatural". Ministryvalues is about reporting on the supernatural – the thing that makes religion and the catholic faith special and unique – and to us interesting.
April 26, 2012 at 7:14 pm
Patrick is a bully who turns into a sniveling wimp when faced with his own methods/tactics.
I actually enjoyed this.
April 26, 2012 at 7:16 pm
To Patrick ..I have made changes to my headline but I will let this "comment" from a reader at my site speak for the truth of my article.
"Without Medjugorje coming to my female consciousness 17 years ago, I would not
be a devout Catholic today and I also am still going strong! I have had the
same reaction to the negativity of the men listed in this article. They have
done untold damage to souls who could have benefited from the messages of love,
penance and prayer, prayer, prayer, especially those who are not Catholic but
listen to the programs /read the materials these men are involved with. I am
not so sure it has to do with sexism, but a closed-mindedness which is damaging
Our Lady's attempts to reach souls. They will each need to account for this
even though they are doing great work for the Lord in other areas. I pray that
the Lord will remove the scales from their eyes!"
April 26, 2012 at 7:43 pm
Wow. Steve, I have no idea what your pelvic comment is supposed to mean, and it doesn't matter. I forgive you. But stop digging. What matters is that snark is not listed along with the other fruits of the Holy Spirit, for a reason. And yet snark — along with testy, puerile, and thin-skinned overreactions to basic facts — comprises one of the many other "fruits of Medjugorje." Be at peace and wait for the Ruini Commission to roll out the final, definitive answer from the Holy See. Please.
Over and definitely out of this Time Vampire topic,
Patrick
April 26, 2012 at 8:24 pm
I guess the big question is this: would (will) Medjugorje supporters still support the apparition if (when) the Vatican says it is false and should be surpressed? If the answer is "yes" then that should be the answer on whether or not it is legitimate and who is behind it.
– Margie
April 26, 2012 at 8:31 pm
to coffin.. hit and run your specialty.
by the way the pelvic comment I thought you would get it
You will write/talk about pelvic issue tomorrow, the next day, and the next..
"A fanatic is a man who can't change his mind and won't change the subject."
— Winston Churchill
April 26, 2012 at 8:43 pm
Margie
Steve, I'm just jumping in here, but let me ask you this point blank: if the Vatican says the apparition is false and should be supressed, will you then desist from championing Medjugorje?
I'm curious here, since you use the word "fanatic" above.
– Margie
April 26, 2012 at 9:12 pm
Let me speak to the "truth" of your article. Everything that you said about me is demonstrably false. Yet you stick by it.
I am not part of a cabal. I choose not to discuss because I don't think I can advance the discussion. I have nothing to say and all it causes is the bats to come out of the belfry. I have absolutely no responsibility to write about it. None.
You made a number of other demonstrably false accusations that you refuse to retract.
If you are an honest man, you will retract your post and offer an apology.
If not, you are not.
Either way, I am done with this conversation and I am done with you and your ilk.
April 26, 2012 at 9:47 pm
To margie,,
I will give you my honest answer..I have written about this before.
As we know the Bishop at Mostar who oversees medjugorje has not been in favor of the alleged apparitions yet the seers continued to say "we see what we see."
The Bishop could not identify or prove fraud or hoax and so the belief in the apparitions went on. Now that medjugoreje is a world wide phenomena its authenticity has been placed in the hands of the Vatican.
If the medjugorje gets a negative ruling two things will happen for me.
First, I will abide by what the Church says completely and if they say I can't write about it I will not (at least not from a Catholic prospective) I will absolutely not make any attempts to say the Church is wrong – totally pointless. Now, secondly, if the the seers continue to say "We see what we see" I will by lying if I told you I would not be interested in taking a peek at the messages and following the story – as I have said a number of times – Medjugorje is a great unsolved mystery that is interesting to me.
The great thing is that Medjugorje has brought me back to the Catholic Church in a deep, lasting and meaningful way. Medjugorje and Our Lady, for me, have completed their mission no matter what the Vatican rules. I am at peace with that.
Special things have happened to me – adoration is a part of my life now. I feel the hand of Christ when I am in the confession booth. It is beautiful and freeing. Medjugorje every day reminds us to pray for our Shepherds because they have been picked by "My Son" I see our priests much differently. My bishop drives me crazy but he has been picked by Jesus Christ.
Medjugorje has helped me understand the true humble ministry of Jesus Christ – for me -peace peace and only peace. Put God in the first place in our lives. Medjugorje is a sanctuary away from so many things …
Importantly Medjugorje is also about "secrets" quite honestly it is probably where the Vatican will have its problems..I have my own problems with the secrets but I have reconciled with that. If Medjugorje is ruled against or the secrets do not unfold, I will still be forever thankful for the messages and the six seers. They/it/Our Lady have put me back on a path to eternity and towards my salvation.
Medjugorje helped me find peace and beauty in the Catholic Church.
April 27, 2012 at 12:47 am
Steve, thank you for your honest answer here. One follow up– do you believe the following messages are from Our Lady:
The Virgin added: 'It is you who are divided on this earth. The Muslims and the Orthodox, like the Catholics, are equal before my Son and before me, for you are all my children."
"All religions are equal before God."
Both messages were recorded in 1981 and can be found testimony by the "seers" by Fr Ljubic and Fr Kraljevic. Do those messages coincide with Catholic teaching?
– Margie
April 27, 2012 at 1:58 am
to Margie
This is an issue for a lot of people but not for me. The first sentence speaks to my heart and my intellect. People either get the point or they don;t.
"Tell this priest, tell everyone, that it is you who are divided on earth."
this next sentence – again controversial – but for me it is greatly hopeful – "you are all my children" – i love that…If some don;t well then ok.
"The Muslims and the Orthodox, for the same reason as Catholics, are equal before my Son and me. You are all my children. Certainly, all religions are not equal, but all men are equal before God, as St. Paul says. "
If Catholics reject "you are all equal before my son and me" then ok. It speaks to me
This next sentence is important to me as well.
"It does not suffice to belong to the Catholic Church to be saved, but it is necessary to respect the commandments of God in following one's conscience."
one thing to keep in mind ..do not take what I have represented are 'Our Ladys" words –I have gotten this from reliable sources..
also this is all Vatican II correct, but I have said repeatedly I am no theologian.. but look up "Lumen Genitum"
April 27, 2012 at 2:06 am
Margie,
Bingo! Good question to pose to Steve regarding the "Virgin Mary" stating that all religions are equal before God.
No response yet from Steve?
Elizabeth
April 27, 2012 at 2:11 am
to Margie,
to be clear.. you have the wrong quote about "all religions are equal"
all religions are NOT equal….read above
April 27, 2012 at 3:55 am
Steve – I got the quote(s) right. They were two separate ones at two separate times.
The fact that you say: "If Catholics reject "you are all equal before my son and me" then ok. It speaks to me" is exactly why this apparition is false. You are saying "Catholics may believe one thing, but the apparition says another". An apparition can NOT contradict the doctrines of the church. Regardless of the warm-fuzzies you get, it is no substitute for the truth.
Mormons get warm-fuzzies after reading the Book of Mormon, a so-called apparition from the "Angel Moroni" which "speaks to them". If you cannot use church dogma as the guide and lithmus test to judge whether something is true, then you are supceptible to anything, including the great deceiver.
– Margie
April 27, 2012 at 4:04 am
to Margie.
I have spoken with Mark Marivalle a renowned Marianologist. He has sat on apparition investigations for the Vatican I have interviewed him. He says Medjugorje is doctrinally sound.
From my first post I have said I am not a theologian perhaps you are. But I do know this is not the place to sort all that out.
I will say Our Lady said "All men are equal before God it is you on earth that are divided"
Let me ask you a question. How do you feel about that statement?
April 27, 2012 at 4:13 am
do you think if a Moslem loves God, has peace in his/her heart and obeys the commandments salvation is possible for a moslem".. FOr a Jew?
I don;t mind saying – I think they do. Our Lady thinks they do. So does Vatican II… so does the Catholic Church.
We all are equal before God's eyes. It is you on earth that are divided. .. sounds good to me and Vatican II