I’m not saying this seems like a bad idea or nothing but…
The USS Illinois, the first Navy submarine to be staffed by an all-female crew, received the support of the White House on Memorial Day.
On Monday, First Lady Michelle Obama officially sponsored the Virginia-class submarine, which will be one of the newest nuclear-powered boats scheduled to enter the fleet by 2015, according to a White House statement.
You know how women in close quarters all tend to get on the same cycle and will get…uhm slightly irritable around the same time and they’ll start getting all angry about things that happened a looooong time ago.
June 8, 2012 at 12:56 am
Storm a brewin. You might want to reconsider this commentary.
June 8, 2012 at 4:21 am
So women can't be rational and trustworthy with important decisions when they're irritable? I enjoy this blog like many others but this makes you look like a real juvenile jackass. And when men are irritable from gas, hemmorhoids, prostate trouble, indigestion, their college team losing the tourney or some other stress, they can't be trusted to make important decisions either? A stupid, sexist joke gone flat. Sure, I'll take a walk 'around the block' and find another blogger that knows when they've crossed the line.
June 8, 2012 at 2:24 pm
I like the idea because there won't be any women coming back from cruise pregnant with another woman's husband's baby!
June 8, 2012 at 2:47 pm
JUNE 7, 2012 11:21 PM
So how long have you been a humorless jerk? Do you know there are treatments for that.
June 8, 2012 at 2:48 pm
@Anon at 11:21: You sound a bit irritated. No really. You are over-reacting. Any reason for that?
Meanwhile, you say, "And when men are irritable from gas, hemmorhoids, prostate trouble, indigestion, their college team losing the tourney or some other stress, they can't be trusted to make important decisions either?" Good grief! This guy needs to get some HELP! Maybe it's really you who is driving him crazy and those are just his excuses.
You don't think that there is a difference between men and women being irritated? We are all human, but men and women absolutely have different dynamics. If you don't believe that, you are in denial. (Men will go kill somebody – great if your job is combat. Women will kill each other. Yes, I am kidding. I know you are not laughing.)
Generally speaking, a sub full of men won't all find themselves getting irritable AT THE SAME TIME. That is NOT good – even if the chances are low-ish. But yes, it really happens and you know that it does. I've seen it with my own eyes. This is why you don't see men arguing with each other very often. Because the cost is WAAY too high. It will quickly come to blows. So men especially military men working together, learn very quickly to keep their cool, and their emotions in check. I am sure this is also more true for military women as well actually. But I have seen even military women, when grouped together under high stress, start viciously taking things out on each other. Just my experience.
You know what is missing from this "discussion"? Knowledge of human nature under stressful extremes. This is the problem with social engineering in the military. Troops need to be able to trust each other and focus on the enemy. When men and women are mixed together in the same units as they are now, lots of other stresses happen.
When gays are added to the mix and allowed to be "open" about it, trust breaks down. Who's going to check my rear end for ticks now? Nobody. Rather get Lyme disease thank you very much.
So call me a sexist pig if you want to, but I am not. Men and women are very different for good reasons. Both genders are special and designed for different roles. Mixing them together in a high-stress ("artificial") environment where they are eating together, sleeping together and around each other constantly definitely leads to a bread down in mission capability. In fact, I would rather see an all-female submarine than a mixed gender one. But bother ARE stupid ideas.
People who object to Matt trying to inject a tad of humor into what is actually a serious subject need to look at the moats in their own eyes.
June 8, 2012 at 3:02 pm
I worked in an all women office once for two years. It was hell on earth and I got to go home each night. No way would I put myself on that boat. Shudder.
June 8, 2012 at 5:16 pm
Some of you are taking this waaaay to the extreme. PMS is real and a submarine full of women all with PMS at the same time is either scary or funny – but a bad idea all around. Chill out yous guys! (er…gals)
June 8, 2012 at 5:38 pm
You should try PMDD, Jack. I suffered from it for almost TEN YEARS – before I broke up with her. (Seriously. Not funny at all. A real cross for this, otherwise good woman to bear. Awful. Like going completely insane every single month.)
June 8, 2012 at 5:59 pm
Teaching at an all girls school, I have found no such issue. Women can synchronize, but the idea this impacts performance is purely foolish. My students achieve at a very high level, some say as a result of being "free" of male distraction. Besides, the military screens for all sorts of medical and psychological problems, why assume serious PMDD ain't on the list?
Also, there are any number of reasons women make a better choice on a sub: smaller, requiring fewer calories and therefore supplies, better at social bonding, better listeners and multitaskers, and somehow even with menses women commit only a tiny fraction of violent crimes in our country.
Wait, why do we let men on submarines again?
June 8, 2012 at 6:50 pm
As a former submariner and nuclear power plant operator my first though was about federal regulations relating to the maximum allowable radiation exposure (Google "10 CFR 20" if you're realy bored). Under normal at-sea operations the US naval forces do not come anywhere close to reaching their legal limit, but in the case with unborn children there is a stircter limit and Navy policy has been to remove pregnant women (or even those who think they are preganant and before tests indicate otherwise) from radiation work (reactors or weapons) altogether.
So this lead me to wonder what would happen if someone had relations with their spouse the night they put to sea, and later found out they were blessed. I expect the sub would need to immediately set up a med-evac, which would probably disrupt operations to get the sailor's unborn child out of harms way. Additionally, the remaining sailors, especially those in the same division, will need to pick up the new mother's work add to their already heavy burden.
But then if you follow the bubblehead blog link noted above you will find this whole thing was bunk.
I just hope that if this does happen the government doesn't think that in order to avoid 10 CFR 20 they just make all submarine women go on birth control (or do something worse) just to avoid interupting operations.
June 8, 2012 at 7:07 pm
"…smaller, requiring fewer calories and therefore supplies, better at social bonding, better listeners and multitaskers, and somehow even with menses women commit only a tiny fraction of violent crimes in our country…."
Plenty of room for supplies for a boomer full of men. So moot.
Better at social bonding? Crock! Men bond like brothers in a very special way. In many ways I have closer bonds with my fellow comrades in arms than with my wife. (In other ways, obviously not) No way female bonding is tighter. We just don't talk about each other as much.
Better listeners? Maybe we are focused more on the task at hand. I would say we are better at blocking out unneeded blather. We hear what we need to. (I am talking about combat, not the home front, where some men could improve). Men are great at fighting/hunting, etc. – which is what this is about. We don't need to talk much about it. "Aye aye, SIR!"
Better multitaskers? No way. Flawed study. Try again. (The converse of this, is that men are more focused and women "all over the place")
Fewer violent crimes? So what? On a sub? I don't think so. Besides, a man's general propensity to fight is actually a plus when you want them to, er, FIGHT.
I could say that men can do anything women can, expect have babies, yet men are also more physically capable and generally have larger brains. But that would make me a jerk.
Fact is: men and women are designed to EXCEL at different things. In GENERAL, men are better designed and able to fight. Period. (No pun intended.) When we run out of men, this will be a great idea. (This may be pretty soon at the rate we are going)
Oh, and NO they do NOT screen for PMDD or PMS! That would be sexist. (Just like they don't screen men for having gas and a bad attitude when their team losses I guess. HA!)
June 8, 2012 at 8:57 pm
Anon 2:07pm, I agree with your bottom line that men and women are designed at different things but some of your arguments are flawed. You talk about the bond you have with your comrades and the one you have with your wife. That is an unwise comparison. You are comparing the bond between and and the bond between a man and a woman. You argument would be worthwhile if you had compared a male-male bond and female-female bond. If you can prove that female-female bonds are weaker than male-male bond you'd have a point.
In addition, I have to agree with the previous poster about multitasking. I have been underwhelmed with the performance of most men I have met when it comes to joggling several task at once under pressure. Granted my opinion is based on my anecdotal experience but I am not willing to dismiss it unless you have information I do not have. You wrote "flawed study" and dismissed the argument but you have failed to present any reason for such dismissal. Were you basing yourself on anecdotal experience (like me) or on objective arguments?
Finally, though I think this post was written tongue in cheek, it raises the interesting question of whether women's biology can be their worse enemy. I would like to think that military personnel is trained in such a way that they could deal with such an issue synchronized cycles or not.
Sandra.
June 8, 2012 at 9:01 pm
I meant, "designed to excel" and later "the bond between several men". My apologies, I should have reviewed my post before posting.
S.
June 8, 2012 at 9:11 pm
you have got to be kidding
June 8, 2012 at 9:23 pm
You misogynistic fuck
June 8, 2012 at 9:51 pm
Hilarious.
Women weren't created for fighting. Get over it.
June 8, 2012 at 11:20 pm
LOL! Matthew. People here need to chill out. Would you have reacted the same way if this were written and posted by a woman? Women have certain weaknesses, while us men have ours. For an example google "why men die first" pictures.
June 9, 2012 at 4:22 pm
Sorry Archbold. A bunch of kneejerks here. I've been in close situations with one man and many women and the jokes and harassment are incredible. Of course, we tend to focus on childbirth a lot, and other things that make men uneasy, but it's still sexual harassment. The righteous haloes surrounding the quibblers on this comment line are irritating my eyes. And women do not belong in combat. I was in the Marine Corp, and they do not belong in combat.
June 9, 2012 at 8:19 pm
I thought it was funny, Matt. I also think some folks might want to take a deep breath and calm down.
June 11, 2012 at 9:07 pm
I think I am supposed to be the misogynist referred to be the polite poster above. Tell it to my wife – she'd laugh in your face! I respect women and I honor them. They are special, and that is the way that I treat them. They alone can bear new life into the world. Their place in the world is something holy. They deserve a man's deep appreciation, admiration and, yes, protection. I am a servant to my wife. I die to my own needs and desires to hers every day and always will.
I treat all women as if they are special – because they are. It is for this reason as well, that I do want to see them ABUSED by making them try to find self worth by "playing man"! Why should they have to "feel equal" to a man in order to feel important? They ALREADY ARE important! It is this sick culture that, while purporting to make them free of their paternalistic world by giving them "freedom over their bodies" really just makes them objects of men. Disgusting.
I believe God made men to fight. While women can also do that, just like I can carry around a baby all day, men are better at fighting and women will always be better at being women.
As for the questions from Sandra, I will correct just one thing. I wasn't making a direct comparison of male-male bonding vs. female-female bonding on purpose. I was disputing the point that "Women are better at social bonding" I was NOT saying that women are WORSE at social bonding. I am saying that men are just as good at it, and that the bind between men-at-arms is indeed so very special and different that it indeed does approach the bonds between a man and his wife. Which is NOT to say that they are the SAME. They are DEFINITELY not the same. However the deep love is there.
As for the flawed study. Sorry. You would have to find it. I don't remember where I saw that. But, again, it doesn't matter, b/c even if you had one that proved it, then you are left with the argument that women are LESS focused. There is a perfectly good evolutionary reason for that. Imagine picking out the sick animal from the running herd, and at the same time thinking about the wild flower. One could say that lions are bad at multi-tasking too. When driving the sub, let's just do that. (Yes, the flowers reference, again, meant for humor.)