Let’s play ‘find the poison’ shall we?
On this side we have a person responsible for the Church and the spiritual care of billions of souls using broad and sweeping but suitably vague language to impugn and denigrate many of those well-meaning Catholics who adhere as best they can to the doctrine and Tradition handed down to them.
On the other side we have one of the unfairly impugned making light of it by putting the insult on a mug.
Guess which one of these parties the great blogger who uses his power for nothing but unity, peace, and love thinks is guilty of passive-aggressive BS and of spreading poison?
December 17, 2013 at 5:05 pm
First, @ Patrick re: 11:49am, to say that JoAnna claims to know what goes on in the hearts and minds of the SSPX is unfair. These are people who have left the Church, you know, the ordinary means of salvation, over what they see as disdain for tradition. It is neither condescending nor judgmental to say that they are wrong and are, in fact in danger of losing their salvation by saying that they can do without the Church. It doesn't matter how nice they are or how hurt they are by modernism, they are endangering their souls. This is not judgment, it is warning.
Second, did you guys have *nothing* better to do than play, "Let's you and him fight?"
December 18, 2013 at 1:42 am
The SSPX have not left the Church. The Holy See has made that clear. The society has not been regularised canonically. The SSPX priests are Carholic priests.
December 18, 2013 at 2:14 am
Not quite. "The fact that the Society of Saint Pius X does not possess a canonical status in the Church is not, in the end, based on disciplinary but on doctrinal reasons. As long as the Society (of St Pius X) does not have a canonical status in the Church, its ministers do not exercise legitimate ministries in the Church" (Pope Benedict XVI, Letter of 10 March 2009 to the Bishops of the Catholic Church concerning the remission of the excommunication of the four bishops consecrated by Archbishop Lefebvre).
December 17, 2013 at 5:06 pm
Joanna, you should go back and read my post. You missed the point. I think mercy is a good thing.
December 17, 2013 at 5:06 pm
"Say what you want about Mark's writing style, but he has been a Catholic for longer than most of the folks who comment at his site."
And you know this how? And you think JoAnna's being judgmental?
December 17, 2013 at 5:12 pm
Freddy, stop being an idiot.
December 17, 2013 at 5:19 pm
No.
December 17, 2013 at 5:24 pm
freddy – as Patrick said, Mark Shea has been Catholic since 1987. http://www.mark-shea.com/about.html
Can you provide evidence to the contrary?
December 17, 2013 at 5:27 pm
Just needling him.
Pope Mark Shea I has given me many a good laugh over the years, from advocating polygenism (contrary to the Catholic faith) to lambasting "trads" at every opportunity. The man has no degree in Catholic theology of which I am aware, but strides across the Catholic world like a Colossus of Rhodes of sorts, telling us all how to think and believe. It's entertaining to say the least.
He and Francis definitely do have one thing in common I will say: name calling.
December 17, 2013 at 5:50 pm
Oh, boy. I'm just asking how Patrick knows how long "most of the folks who comment at his site" have been Catholic. For example, I comment on Mark's site occasionally, and I've been Catholic for 47 years. I read Pat's comment as a knee-jerk slam against people who read Mark's blog. Perhaps I am mistaken.
On a lighter note, being called an "idiot" on a site my older children read is a new one for me.
December 17, 2013 at 5:54 pm
Freddy
You are way off base. My comment about Mark was to signify that his conversion is neither recent or relevant. How you could that as a slam is beyond me, as are your comments today.
December 17, 2013 at 6:04 pm
The comments over there are eye opening!
Shea can be nasty can't he?
December 18, 2013 at 1:45 am
He seems to wear his nastiness as a badge of honour.
December 17, 2013 at 6:11 pm
Patrick,
I'm sorry that you found my comments unclear. Perhaps you will agree that saying that "person x" has been Catholic longer than "group y" can be taken more than one way and given the tenor of your comments to JoAnna (with whom I agree) I might be forgiven for misreading you.
JoAnna,
I'm sorry for "stepping on your toes" so to speak in agreeing with you. I never meant to derail the conversation from the excellent points you made. I've been a regular reader for as long as this blog has been around, but I'm obviously not very good at this comment stuff.
December 18, 2013 at 12:40 am
Things are going to be a big awkward at the NCRegister blogger Christmas party this year. 🙂
December 18, 2013 at 1:52 am
Thank you, Mr Archbold for not being intimidated into not pointing out injustice and error. Let us not lose our reason and objectivity and commitment to the Deposit of Faith because we may be persecuted or become unpopular for so doing. We need more people to speak the truth without fear or favour. I have never witnessed so much fear and confusion against Catholics with a public platform. And many are criticising the messengers for fear they will be persecuted like the FFI. "They came for the Jews but I was not a Jew so I did nothing …"
December 18, 2013 at 2:27 am
Bill Meyer, All the erroneous and confusing things the pope has been saying changes no doctrines, but it can still do considerable damage to souls and the Church. He is dividing, confusing, alienating and misleading many, while adding fuel to progressives and dissenters.
December 18, 2013 at 10:31 am
I don't know if anyone's noticed, but the mug is left-handed. If I want to show off my promethean neo-pelagian tendencies, I have to hold my mug in a dangerous fashion. Screw you, Fr Z!
December 18, 2013 at 11:54 am
Patrick,
I've been a loyal reader since you and Matt started this blog. What a delight! Brothers, family men, Catholics; I've enjoyed your writing so much, both here and at the Register. When your com-boxes became rather a "dangerous neighborhood" I thought it due more to your success — that you had less time to "police" your com-boxes, than policy. I was obviously mistaken.
Now, I'm no shrinking violet. I'm the mother to teen and young adult men, and a cancer survivor, but I do abhor incivility. What you allow here is less "robust conversation" and more "witch-with-a-b session." Perhaps you enjoy insult and put-down among your own family and friends. I find it uncharitable and ungentlemanly.
And though I'm sure you could care less, you've lost a reader; though not someone who will remember you and yours in her prayers. God bless you.
December 18, 2013 at 3:31 pm
Joanna has been an apologist for the smear merchant Shea for quite a long time now..
December 18, 2013 at 3:43 pm
And yet, in Mark Shea's comboxes I'm defending Fr. Z. I'm so fickle!
December 18, 2013 at 4:55 pm
"Perhaps you should read more about what mercy is and how it is employed."
…this comment coming from a Mark Shea groupie. The irony
December 18, 2013 at 5:21 pm
If by "groupie" you mean "friend," then guilty as charged. What is the irony? Can you explain?
December 19, 2013 at 10:27 am
Mark Shea is always starting something. Has anybody noticed how many feuds he has going? And have you noticed how fast he turns on people particularly priests?