I can’t say I am surprised, but I am disappointed.
Pope Francis has made what can only be called disparaging comments about the Traditional Latin Mass and its adherents.
Rorate Caeli reports that the Pope made comments to a Czech Bishop during his ad limina visit those who value and esteem the extraordinary form of the liturgy are merely caught up in a momentary fashion and thus as Pope he does not need to pay attention to them. Yup.
[Abp. Jan Graubner speaks:] When we were discussing those who are fond of the ancient liturgy and wish to return to it, it was evident that the Pope speaks with great affection, attention, and sensitivity for all in order not to hurt anyone. However, he made a quite strong statement when he said that he understands when the old generation returns to what it experienced, but that he cannot understand the younger generation wishing to return to it. “When I search more thoroughly – the Pope said – I find that it is rather a kind of fashion [in Czech: ‘móda’, Italian ‘moda’]. And if it is a fashion, therefore it is a matter that does not need that much attention. It is just necessary to show some patience and kindness to people who are addicted to a certain fashion. But I consider greatly important to go deep into things, because if we do not go deep, no liturgical form, this or that one, can save us.”
Besides being completely wrong, that the Pope is so disrespectful of the reasonable desires of so many good and faithful Catholics it is staggering in its coarseness and dismissiveness.
Not to mention, such an attitude is diametrically opposed to the attitudes and pronouncement of his Holiness Pope Benedict XVI.
I know that I have probably misinterpreted our humble Pope’s meaning and that the problem is me. For sure, the Pope seems to think that I am the problem. Please forgive me, I only speak Promethean.
February 16, 2014 at 10:58 am
The traditional Mass in its various forms represents, embodies the ancient liturgical tradition of the Church. It is an integral part of the Faith, Scripture, Tradition and Magisterium. Lex orandi, lex credendi, lex vivendi has been startlingly borne out over the past few decades.
February 16, 2014 at 11:59 am
Patrick, I don't trust. Rorate Coeli. They love taking offense. SSPX is an obnoxious presence in Argentina. This "quote" is 3rd or 4th hand. TLM people frequently act like Pharisees, chasing away even those who tend to agree with them, see comments above. Prayers for PF and for you. This isn't politics.
February 16, 2014 at 12:04 pm
John Byde – the peace of Christ be with you.
When you write:
"Then I come on blogs like this and feel as though I'm a second class catholic because I don't know Latin…"
I have to ask, what in the world was posted on this blog to make you feel like you were a second class Catholic? Most of the people who go to the Latin Mass don't know Latin – which is perfect since the mass presents to us a mystery not meant to be pierced by our intellect but entered into in faith.
Fr. Blake has a rather nice post about this on his blog:
http://marymagdalen.blogspot.com/2014/02/too-much-information.html
February 16, 2014 at 12:20 pm
On the other hand, a mass with Pinocchio and a Jesus puppet *never* goes out of style…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwS9umpEkvs
February 16, 2014 at 12:48 pm
Those who love the TLM must indeed be careful not to be self-righteous about it. Many FSSP preach about this! Charity must always be present or the form of liturgy has not formed the soul very well at all.
Apologies to those who feel 'second class'; there is no second class in the Church! Well, I take that back. Actually those who enjoy the TLM are second class these days. But that is okay. Let us be humble.
February 16, 2014 at 2:09 pm
I'm not surprised either, and I too am disappointed. The one bright spot to all of this is that he's made his views quite clear now, hasn't he? Up til now, there's been so many people poo-poo-ing the idea that the Holy Father is against Tradition or the Traditional Mass. Well, there you go.
February 16, 2014 at 2:21 pm
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February 16, 2014 at 2:57 pm
I am so done with all the anti-Pope Francis rhetoric on this website. Until our Holy Father starts changing doctrine, I stand with him.
February 16, 2014 at 3:10 pm
Anneg: "Patrick, I don't trust. Rorate Coeli."
Yes, please. Shoot. The messenger.
February 16, 2014 at 3:11 pm
The Pope was indeed made a priest in the late sixties and is a Jesuit but the problem is the comments he makes on all Conservatives like Cardinal Burke. As far as how people act who go to the Latin Mass, some can possibly snobby but you have that in any parish. Francis absolutely meant what he said privately. Who is he to JUDGE Traditional or Conservatives anyway?
February 16, 2014 at 4:15 pm
John Byde
How is that 'this blog" this snobbish blog makes you feel bad because you don't know Latin? That is a very interesting thing to say especially in light of the fact that neither of its authors speak latin or ever even use latin on the blog.
Maybe you were just making it up?
February 16, 2014 at 5:28 pm
I prefer the EF Mass. I just wish I had a time machine to look 200 years into the future to see if a) the EF Mass returns completely or is just a fashion, b) where human cloning goes, c) where medical ethics goes, d) what happens to abortion and euthanasia (how long after Hitler introduced euthanasia did it take for it to extend to Jews, and then war – will we have to wait 200 years?), etc.
February 16, 2014 at 5:42 pm
Sophia,
The Tridentine Mass was not invented at the Council of Trent, the preexisting Roman rite was codified. Try reading Adrian Fortescue, "The Mass" for an in-depth study of the organic development of the Roman Rite.
Unfortunately, people like you mistake codifying for invention on a host of things from celibacy to private confession.
February 16, 2014 at 6:53 pm
Such a small amount of people actually want the tridentine mass. In my area, one of the largest cities in the US, maybe a total of 1000 people attend it weekly. That includes diocesan, sspx, independent and sedevacantist. A portion of them are very gung ho about it though. They remind me of those weirdos who wait in line for Star Trek conventions.
February 16, 2014 at 7:43 pm
Most Catholics have not been taught the Faith and will not learn it from vast majority of new form Masses which don't represent the truths of the Faith. The vast majority don't even know about the traditional, Mass of the Ages because they have been denied this knowledge, along with knowledge of most of the Faith; and even among those who know about it, and would like to be able to attend it, it is not available to them.
February 16, 2014 at 7:45 pm
Lynda,
My count includes independent, sspx, and sedevacantist chapels. You need to face facts. Your "pure" Church has no appeal to the overwhelming majority of people.
February 16, 2014 at 9:06 pm
Most don't know about it, and even for those who do, it is not made available in most areas as it is supposed to be. SP and UE have not been implemented in most places. The vast majority don't know of the traditional Mass, never mind that they have a right to have it made available to them. Most of the bishops have failed them by not teaching and preaching the whole of the Deposit of Faith, and how the traditional Mass represents the truths of the Faith. The widespread degradation of the Mass has caused a majority to abandon the Faith since the 1960s. The new Mass as implemented is not even any way close to the Mass of SC of Vatican II Council, which maintained most of the elements of the Mass that most people associate with the traditional Mass.
February 16, 2014 at 7:47 pm
The Pope has had strong things to say about traditionalists since he got elected. I'm traditional in my understanding of faith and in my practice of it but I can understand he's points. The smug and snobbish reaction to him from Traditionalists shows part of these folks problems. Quite a lot are really like the Pharisees. But. like in today's reading, Christ calls us to be even holier than them. Why? Because theirs was false holiness. it was all about external and scrupulous obedience instead of a genuine love of God. I don't question Traditionalists' love of God but I question their love for God's church and the vast majority of the clergy and faithful who do not find the missal of 1962 as a superior manifestation of the Divine. Our rituals are beautiful but they reflect the culture and understanding of the times. Jesus did not write the 1962 missal.
February 16, 2014 at 8:00 pm
"It is just necessary to show some patience and kindness to people who are addicted to a certain fashion."
Did Pope Francis have to use the word 'addicted"?
February 16, 2014 at 8:09 pm
Two thoughts come to mind:
1. For those who insist they won't ever attend the traditional Mass because of ugly attitudes from "traddies", best bear in mind that "moderns" have been equally virulent in their intolerance for anything remotely not modern for at least 30 years. Dismissing one side or the other because of bad attitudes merely perpetuates the battle.
2. If you want to proclaim that nobody WANTS the traditional Mass, a little perspective seems in order. Bear in mind that in the US, the bishops more or less strictly forbade the traditional Mass in 1970, insisting that everyone would celebrate the Novus Ordo, whether they wished it..or not. John Paul enabled bishops to ease that mandate in the early 80's, but most of my generation (I was born in '74) don't know of such an "indult Mass". I didn't know about it until I stumbled on a (illegal) traditional Mass in 2001. If "nobody wants it", most have been misguided against it for most of their lives. I suspect it'll take a few decades for stronger interest to take hold.
I think it'd be a grave tragedy for the old Mass to be neglected for good by the wider populace. Our apparent modern contempt for the practices of the past is..very sad.
February 16, 2014 at 8:38 pm
The tack of stereotyping people who attend the traditional Mass is a tactic to avoid the issue, distract from the issue because they can't argue the issue. Smear people they posit as those who attend the Mass rather than address the issue of the sacred Mass itself.
February 16, 2014 at 8:10 pm
Lynda reflects my points exactly about the elitist, snobbish Latin Mass people (If only I went to her Mass, I would have knowledge of the Faith). The "traditional Mass of the ages" spans 2000 years of time and spans the entire globe. I wonder what she'd think of the Samoan Masses we have here, complete with dancing up the aisle with the gifts (their ultimate posture of reverence)? See why I end up defending things that annoy my proper New England upbringing?
February 16, 2014 at 8:25 pm
Obviously you misread it entirely! The Mass of the Ages is not my Mass and I rarely get to attend it. Those who know the Faith know the traditional Mass represents the true theology and substance of the Faith – even if they can't attend it. Most Catholics do not have the opportunity to attend it, sadly. Most are not even informed about it.