I was able to visit the Los Angeles Cathedral of Our Lady of the Angels yesterday. More will be said on its architecture in a later post. However, I did visit the gift shop, which has many nice Catholic books and other things. The problem came when I began talking with a man who worked there. His customer service couldn’t have been better. His shiny jewelry and over-the-top attitude was a bit off-putting, but it was California, after all. My friend was looking for a rosary for his girlfriend, and the store worker started asking him about her favorite colors, what kind of clothes she wore, what sort of textures she liked, etc., in order to help him pick a rosary that best agreed with her fashion sense. So far, very Californian, but not a big problem. Kind of HGTV: Rosary Edition.
Then he asked what I did for a living and I told him that I teach architecture and theology, and he said with a casual smile: “oh, that’s great, my partner would love that. He was a monk for 4 years.” Again, this was California, and maybe even the cathedral shop has legal issues about who it can hire and who it can’t. Then I started talking to my friend about one of the architects who was a finalist for the cathedral design a few years back, whose architectural philosophy is radically anti-Incarnational and anti-Catholic, and the salesman said “well, everyone is welcome in this cathedral.” Being cheeky, I said “how about Satanists?” He responded: “Satanists aren’t devil worshipers, you know. I know some Satanists and they aren’t devil worshipers.” So, following up, I said: “OK, then what about devil worshipers? Are they welcome here at the cathedral?” He replied: “Well, devil worshipers are actually Christians, because God made the devil.” Another woman in line chimed in with a smile: “that’s right, God made the devil.” I decided it was best to leave at that point.
Honestly, I couldn’t have made this up. A staff member of the cathedral gift shop might be the first and only person a visitor might talk to who represents the cathedral, as it was in my case. And what do we get? A person who gladly flaunts his open defiance of the Church’s moral teaching and has a positive view of devil worship.
Who’s asleep at the wheel here?
August 25, 2008 at 2:21 am
You really have done it this time…do you realize what will happen to this employee when the Cardinal finds out??? He will probably make him Director of Operations for the Rog Mahal, give him a big raise and make his “partner” Director of Liturgy for the Archdiocese….
August 25, 2008 at 3:04 am
This report on the Cathedral is a shameful and I dare say sinful bit of rash judgment.
At worst, what is described here is a couple of liberals with errant theology. As for the alleged homosexual, maybe he is, maybe his is not. That fact that he called this other man his “parter” says nothing. To assume he is a homosexual, let alone a practicing homosexual is the sin of rash judgment.
The biggest sin of rash judgment, however, is to accuse the Cathedral, and therby its rector and the Cardinal himself, of promoting Satanism.
Regardless of who the clerk was and what his beliefs or understands are, this does not constitute promotion by the Cathedral — except maybe in yellow journalism or a bathroom wall.
In this instance two grave sins have been committed: 1) rash judgment; and 2) calumny against the rector and the Cardinal.
The writer of this article should repent of his words, apologize to the rector and the Cardinal, and post a retraction.
I say these things not because I support the Cardinal. I have many issues with the Cardinal. But justice and truth demand an airing.
August 25, 2008 at 3:31 am
Dear Br. Ignatius Mary: with all due respect, I related the events described as they occurred. The implications were made by the man himself–there was very little I needed to infer anything from it. He was quite proud of his beliefs and freely expressed them, which, of course, was his right. However, he is a representative of the cathedral as an employee, and if he represents something openly and proudly that is in opposition to the Catholic Church while representing the Catholic Church, then something is out of order. Nowhere in the blog entry will you find the cardinal or the rector mentioned. Personnel problems are precisely that, and it seems that someone needs to address this one because he was indeed the public face of the cathedral to me.
D Mac
August 25, 2008 at 3:36 am
Pointing out that the LA cathedral and Cardinal Mahoney, book store clerks, etc., have serious defects is hardly calumny and rash judgement. If that were the case Jesus Christ would have been among the most rash…He never seemed to suffer fools, pharisees, or hypocritical high priests with calm and reason. The point is — pretending that new age or insensible weirdness or mindless ‘tolerance’ is NOT going on from the top to bottom in the Archdiocese of LA — is too turn a blind eye to an example of major problems of the American Catholic Church. The AMC represents a disconnect from common sense, never mind the Roman Church and its set of teachings. Pretending that Cardinal Mahony and his strange example of 60s views is to lie and deny what is true. Failing to point out examples of action or incaction that runs counter to church teaching or tolerance to the point of failing to defend the legacy of Jesus Christ Himself. Since when was He a whiny mush who accepted the silly behavior of the clerics of His era? To ignore what appears to be views that fly in the face of common sense – let alone church teaching – is real hypocrisy and real failure. Only those who have lost all reason or hunger for what is true and real – would fail to discern apples from toadstools. No one can judge the Cardinal’s soul – that is between him and the Almighty. But it is imperative Catholics in America may have to decide if some clerics have gone over to the dippy side – if not the dark side. For me Cardinal Mahony represents bad 60s mushy non-philosophy – secular humanism that mistakes the charity of Christ for Freud and Frankfurt School of Social Theory. It is difficult to take the Cardinal, and some bishops, seriously, particularly when they routinely appear to act out of concert with the latest church teaching. As it is, the 60s generation and it’s dippy – feel good pseudo social gospel according to them — will be dead and buried – in the not too distant future. The real Gospel of Christ and meaning behind it, will survive silly cardinals or satanist buyers of books. Christ’s lead re fingering those who make God look silly or in some way mock Him – is indeed — rash. As for criticizing clerics. One famous critic comes to mind and she ended up a Saint.
Eleventh session: Wednesday, March 14, 1431 (morning)
The prisoner was asked about a warning which she had given to Bishop Cauchon. She reported her words as follows:
Joan: (to Cauchon) “You say that you are my judge; I do not know if you are: but take good heed not to judge me ill, because you would put yourself in great peril. And I warn you so that if God punish you for it, I shall have done my duty in telling you.”
Cauchon was later appointed bishop of Lisieux in 1432 ((MGAV 65)), but was then accused of stealing funds destined for Rome. The Pope excommunicated him, but he defiantly continued to offer Mass. Only when the Pope threatened to make his excommunication public and depose him, did he agree to pay back the money ((SS 197)). He died in 1442.
.
August 25, 2008 at 4:10 am
>>>That fact that he called this other man his "parter"(sic) says nothing.<<<
If he were a homosexual (with a partner) working in a Catholic Church, would that come as a surprise to you, Brother? Would it be acceptable for such a man to work in the Church, in your view?
Maybe you West-coasters have different meanings to words that we have in the Midwest” "oh, that's great, my partner would love that. He was a monk for 4 years." In Chicago, (without making value judgments) a man who would say such a thing is saying that he’s a homosexual especially when combined with the bling and the attitude.
>>>At worst, what is described here is a couple of liberals with errant theology
No. At worst this rather insignificant story from LA is another example (admittedly a small example) of heterodoxy, loose morals and a pervasive modernist/leftist attitude that has contributed to nearly 3 billion dollars in money damages against the Catholic Church including over $660 million and counting from LA.
That’s more than enough and those of us who have contributed our own money to the Church and have now learned that we are the chumps who are paying these money damages, INSIST that the nonsense stops NOW. Ordaining or hiring men who have even a hint of SSA is not acceptable. In addition, criminal bishops ought to be prosecuted and punished if found guilty. They certainly ought not to be given a pass or be sent to Rome and made Archpriests of major cathedrals.
Pray for them if you wish. Make novenas, do mortifications, wear sackcloth and ashes, stand on your head, do whatever you want for them but they must get the heck out of the Church before they do even more damage. I love Aquinas and Augustine but their lofty theology is not needed when this question is simply a matter of common sense and dollars and cents.
August 25, 2008 at 4:50 am
Br. Ignatius–it is possible you are right. Maybe this store worker meant his ping pong partner, business partner, canasta partner, swing dance partner, or celibate-but-committed life partner. However, given the conventional meaning that “my partner” has, esp. in southern California, the man should have at least been more careful about his word choice if he meant something else.
August 25, 2008 at 5:54 am
Regarding post number 20 – anonymous said “It is a very routine practice in California, especially the San Jose area for priests, seminarian students and other religious men to live with a male “partner”. Many of the clergy openly participate in the gay culture of that area. Cardinal Mahoney is aware of this and actually indirectly encourages this.”
I’m afraid you don’t really know what you’re talking about. San Jose is not in the LA diocese – it is it’s own diocese far away from LA. I know the vocations director and he is a rock-solid priest and so are the seminarians he is sheparding.
August 25, 2008 at 5:55 am
David L Alexander, Brother Ignatius, others:
If neither of you have lived in Los Angeles, you don’t know what you are talking about. When something is mentioned of the Cardinal and his behavior, his thogeology and open support of gay rights, etc, don’t say a word to us. WE know what we are talking about, we suffer it everyday. Spare us the judgement c-rap. You plainly judged us by saying we’re being so without giving us the benefit of the doubt.
WE KNOW WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT, and, yes, the mention of “partner” here in SoCal and in any major metro area means just that, that the guy in Cathedral bookstore is a flamer.
August 25, 2008 at 6:16 am
Sock you summed it up in a nutshell. Thanks
August 25, 2008 at 6:36 am
Cardinal Mahoney has led many astray in his parish. He needs to be excommunicated. What I have read before about his antics at that church, and about this article, just the thought of that building gives me the creeps. Thank you to the person who gave the e-mail and adresses of Vatican contacts. I just e-mailed this blogg to his Holiness. Onward Christian Soldiers.
August 25, 2008 at 6:44 am
I am afraid that the most depressing words said on this blog are those of a brother of the Catholic Church actually defending the un-Catholic and immoral lifestyle and statements of the bookstore attendant.
Br Ignatious you should be ashamed of yourself.
Start looking at the teachings of your Church about homosexusal lifestyle and Satan worship. Start looking at the teachings of Our Lord – no he is not a left-wing, trendy liberal who supports the gay lifestyle and the worship anything or anyone you choose mentality.
August 25, 2008 at 12:42 pm
I am so sorry to hear that this has gone on at a a catholic cathedral.Truely this is the “somoke of satan” that was told would enter the church. May God bless and protect all the good Catholics that have left good posts on this site. Thank god for EWTN and priests like Fr John Corapi but a rebuke in the name of JESUS to all the luke warm COWARDS that are not willing to stand up for their faith. My good christian brothers in Los angeles you have a tough time ahead of you. Stay faithfull. This Cardinal will drag himself and many souls to hell with him unless he truely comes back the the teachings of the holy catholic church and the Holy Father
August 25, 2008 at 4:58 pm
I is very sad to hear but I’m not shocked to hear it these days. It seems right is wrong and wrong is right is many areas of this modern world.
I would suggest praying for the world and asking God to send St. Michael to bind all evil spirits by the precious blood of our Lord Jesus Christ and pour his holy spirit down to dispell this spiritual blindness. The power of prayer is the greatest weapon we have as faithfull Catholics.
I wish they would put the St. Michael prayer back at the end of every mass in the world. Amen.
August 25, 2008 at 6:30 pm
You are an architect.
Please let the people in the country know that many of us are not happy with the warehouse they call a cathedral.
Our Lady of the Angels is in a side hall in a small chapel.
The tabernacle is in a small room.
This building is certainly the Taj Mahony-
August 26, 2008 at 1:38 am
Ciao Fellow Romani!
It is I, Albino Luciani, back, well, at least in the blog-o-sphere, though I heard the other day, the Boys Across The Tiber were trying to remove my wifi privledges, here in the Papal Crypt.
Papa Ben's Novus Ordo 2.0, I LOVE IT…minus the new and improved Roman Heart Mediction Prescription version…your checking account balance at Il Banco Vaticano (Banco di Spiritus) may vary.
OK, time to get down to the nub of the heavily used Rosary Beads…
Numero Uno:
http://www.bishop-accountability.org
/abusetracker for daily verified coverage on the ongoing and uncorrected CRIMINAL Curia Cover Up by ARCH SERIAL, MULTIPLE DECADE, Pedophile & Unconsenting Minor(s) Sexual Assault Enabler Rog 'Mahal' Mahony, Tod 'Gay Boy' Brown, Bobbie 'What Gay Orgy At St. John's Seminary?' Brom, etc.
These boys are costing American laity, to date, with no end in sight, no correction, child endangerment still widely pervasive, and certainly no punishment or removal of guilty bishop and cardinal aid & abetters, at least $3 Billion Dollars, so far.
Other guilty names include: Egan, George, McCarrick, Rigali, Law, Keeler, Maida, DiNardo, Burke, Leveda, O'Malley, Re, Bertone, Sodano, Scola, Hummes, Rivera, Pell, Schonborn, and many hundreds more, all John Paul II (NO SAINT) appointed.
Remember Laity, sexual assaulters, or their criminal curia aid & abetters, are NOT curable; each is a maligent cancer in The Body Of Christ (The Church) and must be REMOVED, immediately, if not sooner.
When you think that these curia might be innocent, think of Marciel, founder and serial pedophile as well as sexual assault ring master, at the Mexican cult Legion Of Christ.
Numero Due:
http://www.amazon.com for over 90+ recently very accurate books published on the curia criminality, from such salient & cogent authors as: Roman Catholic Bishops Thomas Gumbleton & Jeffery Robinson, as well as Dr. Robert Grant, MD, Richard Sipe, Attorney Marci Hamilton, Jason Berry, Dr. Leon Podles, one of my favorites, David Yallop, as well as Fr. Thomas Reese, SJ, Fr./Dr. Howard Bleichner, SS, and Fr./Dr. Thomas Doyle, OP, to name only a few.
Numero Tre:
As St. Peter Damien suggested, almost 1,000 years ago, to the overt criminal sexual pervsions and criminality of the curia back then: STOP DONATING LAITY!
3, it's a HOLY NUMBER; pass it on to all your family, friends and colleagues.
It is indeed a MORTAL SIN TO BE FIANCIALLY SUPPORTING THESE UNPUNISHED AND EVIL CURIA.
Ciao e pace,
Albino Luciani
NOT Smiling From Heaven
August 26, 2008 at 1:50 am
Brother Ignatius Mary you need to read the prophecies of the Approved Apparition of the Blessed Virgin in 1846..May be you will think that Our Blessed Mother is judgemental too!
She clearly states that there will be a lot of wickedness among the members of the clergy…
Anyway the bible clearly states “if your brother sin, rebukes him, if he does not listen take some more members of the church and rebuke him publicly.. and if does not repent shake the dust of your feet upon him”
The problem today is that the church want6s us to shut up and accept all the evil that is prevailing in our church..if you read the secret messages of La Salette, you should know as a
catholic that a Bishop will raise the anti-christ who will be born out of a fake hebrew nun. An that the seat of Rome will be occupied by the anti-christ…so don’t you think that the writer is being harsh on the cardinal who is allowing such nonsense architecture in our church and recruiting such immoral person like the store clerk and the anti-catholic architect.
August 26, 2008 at 2:03 am
Italian priest organizes beauty contest for nuns
‘Miss Sister 2008’ will show that nuns aren’t all old and dour, he says
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26379900/
I now that this has nothing to do with this blog..but i does make you wonder of what is going on in our church..please pray that the devil will not prevail and that God will not abandon makind to himself as prophesied at La Salette by the Blessed Virgin!
Please read the messages of La Salette and spread it..
http://www.mgr.org
August 26, 2008 at 2:05 am
sorry the La salette messages are at
http://www.mgr.org/lasalette.html
August 26, 2008 at 6:51 am
there’s absolutely no way this guy can be discharged simply because of his comments,beliefs,etc.
would be a discrimination law suit and everybody knows this.
August 26, 2008 at 6:51 am
there’s absolutely no way this guy can be discharged simply because of his comments,beliefs,etc.
would be a discrimination law suit and everybody knows this.