You know, every time we talk presidential politics on CMR, somebody will send us an email or write a comment about ALL Catholics should be supporting Ron Paul.
There are so many reasons why I could never, would never, support Ron Paul.
Here is reason #372. He blames the US for 9/11. Repeatedly. (Des Moines Register via Gateway)
Two weeks away from the tenth anniversary of the 9/11 attacks, presidential candidate and Texas Rep. Ron Paul says that U.S. intervention in the Middle East is a main motivation behind terrorist hostilities toward America, and that Islam is not a threat to the nation.At a campaign stop on Saturday in Winterset, one man asked Paul how terrorist groups would react if the U.S. removed its military presence in Middle Eastern nations, a move the candidate advocates.
“Which enemy are you worried that will attack our national security?” Paul asked.
“If you’re looking for specifics, I’m talking about Islam. Radical Islam,” the man answered.
“I don’t see Islam as our enemy,” Paul said. “I see that motivation is occupation and those who hate us and would like to kill us, they are motivated by our invasion of their land, the support of their dictators that they hate.”
Regarding 9/11, Paul said that attacks against the U.S. from Middle Eastern groups at home and abroad can be traced to the foreign presence of U.S. troops, as well as America’s relationships with dictator regimes.
America is certainly not sinless, don’t get me wrong. But to blame America, for inciting 9/11 is so wrongheaded it is scary. Ron Paul is an Idiot.
August 30, 2011 at 2:47 pm
Man, I was just starting to really like your site. I do not understand people like you who get so fired up over Ron Paul. I don't love the guy, but I see where he's coming from, and I get really bothered by people who just yell IDIOT rather than actually responding to what he says. In the article you reference, as others have mentioned, he's talking motivation and in a sense he's blaming our crappy foreign policy. This is what is so infuriating? Lots of candidates disagree with our current foreign policy. Why do you people act like he doesn't even deserve an actual response? He doesn't like our current foreign policy. He offers a legitimate criticism. I don't understand why people get so defensive about this. Also, Rick Santorum may be a Latin Mass Catholic, he has zero chance of winning a general election. This MUST be a consideration, it must. Ron Paul has a better shot, honestly, and his is not good. Economically and domestically, RP would do good things. The so-called crazier parts of his wish list – legalizing drugs, etc – may not be your cup of tea but (a) he makes IMO practical, thought-provoking arguments, ie the money down the drain over our current largely ineffective drug policies, and (b) any rational person should be able to recognize that he won't get a lot of them past Congress anyways. So, maybe he's not the ideal, but he seems like a good man, he's pro-life, he genuinely cares for this country and the values most of us claim to hold. I do not understand why people, especially Catholics, feel like it's okay to say nasty things about him.
August 30, 2011 at 3:20 pm
geronimo – another Paulbot. Aren't you a Canadian anyway?
August 30, 2011 at 3:38 pm
@ Austin:
Everything that the US military has done DOES fit with just war theory. You are smearing an awful lot of people.
(With the exception of what those few idiots did at Abu Graib, which was utterly contrary to the UCMJ, their training, and was punished, aberrant behavior. The rest of what our troops have done has been exemplary.)
The US had every right and just reason to go into Iraq and Afghanistan. These wars were authorized legally under international law as well, and have been prosecuted with all due care.
Even if you disagree, you still need to tell me how legalizing prostitution and hard core drugs is going to make this a more Christian nation. It won't. Not only is Paul ignorant about our enemies, his views will bring us to greater moral decay at home and LARGER MORE DEADLY WARS LATER.
This IS idiotic because one must suspend common sense, all sense of history and basic knowledge of right and wrong to hold these positions. AND one must also believe in conspiracy theories, instead of the truth, to hold his world view. In other words – turn off your brain and believe what's easy to believe instead of what is fact.
It's also hilarious for others to suggest that this guy "has a chance"? Are you kidding? On what planet? Again, it is more of this suspension of reality stuff.
August 30, 2011 at 4:03 pm
"When a society is perishing, the wholesome advice to give to those who would restore it is to call it to the principles from which it sprang; for the purpose and perfection of an association is to aim at and to attain that for which it is formed, and its efforts should be put in motion and inspired by the end and object which originally gave it being. Hence, to fall away from its primal constitution implies disease; to go back to it, recovery…."
RERUM NOVARUM
ENCYCLICAL OF POPE LEO XIII
May 15 1891
———————————-
To Pope Leo XIIIs point, our society is perishing and this country has strayed far from our Founders intent. I believe that RP is the only candidate that understands our Constitution and the intent of our Founding Fathers. This country needs a "Reset Button", NOW & that "Reset Button" is Ron Paul.
August 30, 2011 at 4:12 pm
Were the disciples of Jesus Christ as singularly devoted apologists as the disciples of politicians, commentators, pundits, silly silly entertainers and pro athletes!
August 30, 2011 at 4:14 pm
Anonymous said…
geronimo – another Paulbot. Aren't you a Canadian anyway?
No, I'm a Catholic. How about you?
August 30, 2011 at 4:35 pm
Dingo – Wrong. Pre-emptive war is not part of the "Just War" teaching of the Catholic Church. Read the Catechism and go through the required steps for a war to be considered "just". The wars of the American Empire do not make the grade. Sorry, but that's the way it is.
Americanism is a heresy.
August 30, 2011 at 4:49 pm
@ geronimo:
I think you just demonstrated that you do "live in your own world", one without a country. Where is that? Maybe outer space? This fulfills a prerequisite for putting your "faith" into a errant man like Ron Paul: first suspend all sense of reality.
Next you will be saying that caring for and about one's country is not Catholic either.
jhynds, above, is correct when he talks about this country straying far from the intent of our founding fathers. But R.P. is not the answer.
To answer your question: yes, I am a Catholic. And I am also someone who believes that I have a duty to my country – to do my part to help it be as good as country as possible, so that what it stands for and its influence in the world are all only for the cause of that which is good.
Call this "Americanism" if you will. So be it. Excellent. And then call me an AMERICAN. And I am happy to be one. And my duty to The Lord means that I am obliged to care for my neighbor, my community, my country and the world. So while I was blessed to be born here I will live my life trying in my little way to make this a better, more just, more loving nation. (You may want to try that with your own country as well – if you have one.)
This requires that I not support Ron Paul, whose policies would lead to more and larger wars and to further moral decay.
So, while I may salute my flag, I bow ONLY to God! (unless I am in Japan, and then I make a "little" head nod to those nice folks as well. …But I don't worship them.)
It is my devotion to Him alone that moves me to passionately seek what is best for my nation and the world with which it interacts.
As a Catholic, I support an end to abortion not a RP-style-constitutionalist's, "let the states decide" approach. BUNK! But as a constitutionalist myself I also recognize the value of the federalist system.
My Catholicism is one reason why I could not support R.P. and his policies promoting moral decrepitude. We have enough of that already. We need a strong country morally, spiritually and with a strong enough defense to maintain PEACE.
@Fr. Bill Pekman:
You are correct, of course, yet, the matter of who leads the US is very important stuff. No? Life and death and all that. But, yes, of course, we should all be as (MORE) devoted to Christ. In the end, we must put our faith only in Him.
August 30, 2011 at 4:58 pm
@geronimo:
"Pre-emptive war is not part of the "Just War" teaching of the Catholic Church."
You misunderstand both the nature of the wars themselves and the meaning of the theory. As many do. Just War theory is about a county's right to defend itself. The continuation of the Gulf War in Iraq was an act of self-defense.
The notion of "pre-emption" implies that the threat does not rise to the level explained in St. Augustine's theory and the teaching of The Church. However, this was not the case with the grave threat Iraq posed and the continuation of the war which began in 1991.
Naturally, this will be argued ad infinitem. Meanwhile, Ron Paul's positions are still idiotic and contrary Catholic teaching.
August 30, 2011 at 6:03 pm
OK, Dingo.
Go ahead and continue to fight for the American Empire and help spread its errors throughout the world. Make the world safe for child-killing and homosexual marriage, along with a nice dose of greed and arrogance thrown in for good measure. That's what you are defending, whether you like it or not.
Just don't try to equate that evil Empire with the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church will still be around when your Empire is in the dustbin of history, like all empires before it.
August 30, 2011 at 7:05 pm
OK. It seems that Ron Paul isn't the only idiot around. Good grief.
What is YOUR country doing for "homosexual marriage" and "child killing", greed and so on? Oh that's right you live on your own planet.
I will continue to fight to correct any and all errors of my country and vote to support those who will work to end abortion, prevent wars and so on.
You should be glad, and you may want to be careful up there on your high horse; there's apparently not much oxygen up there.
You are right about one thing. In the end, the only Kingdom left will be THE Kingdom of God. Meanwhile, this sinner will just be working to make his country better. Go on and continue to be a hater.
August 30, 2011 at 8:43 pm
That's right – since you have no logical argument, just call people names. That will win the day.
August 30, 2011 at 8:46 pm
Dingo said – "I will continue to fight to correct any and all errors of my country and vote to support those who will work to end abortion, prevent wars and so on."
Sounds like you're becoming a Ron Paul supporter to me!
August 30, 2011 at 8:48 pm
Just calling it like I see it. Your hatred for the US is as palpable as it is stupid.
August 30, 2011 at 8:57 pm
@geronimo
"Sounds like you're becoming a Ron Paul supporter to me!"
About that "sound". You are the only one hearing it. Ron Paul's policies would lead to greater destruction and moral decay.
Maybe out there in "backwards world" destruction and decrepitude are a good thing. In the real world, the actual world, R.P. policies are a BAD thing. (Hard core drugs and prostitution – HOORAY!)
P.S.: Your Paulbot/hate America button is stuck. You may want to go wash it or something.
P.P.S: NO ONE cares about this thread anymore.
August 30, 2011 at 9:01 pm
Your name-calling button is stuck – try to discuss things without calling names.
August 30, 2011 at 9:32 pm
@geronimo
Frankly I don't care. I am tired of reading your posts SMEARING an entire NATION of people!
So try these names on for size: Hypocrite and bully. They both fit you.
Your America-phobic diatribes against anyone who would support the United States and has a different view than your own are disgusting and insulting. You basically called some other poster a baby-killer. And you have the nerve to whine about "name calling"? Maybe you haven't actually READ any of your own posts. (All very charitable and loving. You pose yourself as a paladin of justice riding on a white horse meanwhile accusing a WHOLE COUNTRY of greed and arrogance! Nice.)
BTW, I laid out plenty of points for discussion. Let's face it, you can't handle someone disagreeing with you without just spitting out the same hackneyed garbage like an automaton and attacking an entire country of people.
So, Mr. Catholic, (SHOCK another name!) you may want to ponder whether or not you may have a tiny little something to do with the tone of the discussion.
August 30, 2011 at 9:49 pm
And where did I call another poster a "baby-killer"? Show me exactly where I did that. You can't.
There you go again – calling names instead of discussing the issues.
Breathe in, Dingo, and calm down. Your attitude is how wars get started.
By the way, here is the official Church teaching on Just War. See if your favorite wars make the grade.
2309 The strict conditions for legitimate defense by military force require rigorous consideration. The gravity of such a decision makes it subject to rigorous conditions of moral legitimacy. At one and the same time:
– the damage inflicted by the aggressor on the nation or community of nations must be lasting, grave, and certain;
– all other means of putting an end to it must have been shown to be impractical or ineffective;
– there must be serious prospects of success;
– the use of arms must not produce evils and disorders graver than the evil to be eliminated. The power of modem means of destruction weighs very heavily in evaluating this condition.
These are the traditional elements enumerated in what is called the "just war" doctrine.
August 30, 2011 at 10:11 pm
Heck – you just called the whole COUNTRY a baby-killing nation by suggesting that those who support the country "fight for the American Empire and help spread its errors throughout the world. Make the world safe for child-killing and homosexual marriage". OK, so any American who doesn't agree with you is a fighting to make the world safe for baby-killing. But I can't show you where you call someone that?
Again – maybe you should read your own works of charity here. These lovely posts of yours.
And, no, that's not an insult to a whole country.
When you refer to the USA as an "Evil Empire" you are not at all implying that the American PEOPLE have anything to do with that, right?
Interesting how you have suddenly changed the subject away from your vacuous hatred of American and your vicious, vile posts and now switch back to arguing the merits of the Iraq War. that's been done already ad nauseum.
There you go again with, "Favorite Wars" comment. Has anyone punched you in the face lately? Your mom, the waiter, anyone? I am just wondering, not calling you a name or anything like that. But it occurs to me that you may not get along well with others in general.
But to humor you:
As I stated in an earlier post: I am well aware of Just War theory, thank you very much, and yes the Gulf War and the continuation of it in the invasion of Iraq as well as the war in Afghanistan fulfill ALL the criteria for a JUST war.
Meanwhile, geronimo, this was ABOUT RON PAUL who's wars would be BIGGER. The Iraq war is NOT RELEVANT.
August 30, 2011 at 10:36 pm
Let me try to reason with you Dingo.
There are good people in every nation. The U.S.A., for all its evil that it spreads throughout the world, also has good individual people in it. It also has a lot of evil-doers and a lot of people(the majority), who just go along with whatever. So too does every nation. When I call the Empire evil I am calling it for the evil that it does – spreading its evil ways of child-killing and sexual perversion and war throughout the world. It's the most powerful country on earth and has an enormous influence on the entire culture of the world. And that influence is not good. It is not Catholic. And again, that does not mean that every single individual American is evil; likewise, not every German in 1943 was evil. But the majority just went along – they did what everyone else was doing – you must support your country – even bishops and priests said to support the Fatherland. And that was wrong. A solitary Austrian man, Franz Jaegerstaetter, did not go along. Priest and bishop tried to convince him to "support his country". Now, he has been beatified and is on the way to canonization. So, who did the right thing? Those who supported the government no matter what evil it did, or those that defied the government and are now considered saints by the Catholic Church?
Nationalism is not patriotism. A true patriot stands up and declares the truth. Nationalism is a heresy – it was a heresy in 1943 and it is a heresy today. It is not Catholic.