This is pretty funny. Amazing how quickly an election will change a party.
HT Me and Folly
November 12, 2012
November 12, 2012 at 4:29 am
Yes, more than one tradition is worth preserving. There are many cultures all over this earth, each with uniqueness and elements worth preserving, including America's.
American traditions are the one Americans ought to be worried about preserving, just as any people ought to strive to preserve itself and its heritage and culture.
Individuals should always be treated with fairness and dignity. But that doesn't require open borders and cultural self-destruction.
November 12, 2012 at 5:32 am
I'm sorry I don't get this.
Is the artist in favour of change to immigration policy so as to preserve life and family? Or not?
If not, what tradition is worth preserving more than Pro-Vida (and Pro Familia as part of it)?
November 12, 2012 at 2:50 pm
Mass immigration from Mexico (or any other foreign country) is dangerous. He have a culture, ragged and torn as it might be, handed down to us from the founders of our civilization. They wanted only people like them to come to this country. They didn't want mass migration from any country, especially from places where the cultural values would conflict with those of the founding stock. That's why, until 1965, there was precious little immigration from what we now call 3rd world countries like Mexico. Now thanks to the Immigration Act passed in 1965, our culture is being threatened by mass immigreation from Asia, the Middle East, and our southern borders. And the stinkin' Goofy Old Party wants to pander to some of these immigrants! Hey, how about 'pandering' to the founding stock that built all this!
November 12, 2012 at 3:03 pm
The founding stock are dead and gone. I'm more interested in increasing the number of saints in this country than in increasing those who think the way the founding fathers did. I'm not saying that we ought to have completely open borders, but the needs of those coming to this country ought to be considered before they're pushed right back out. I know that deciding the fate of would-be immigrants on a case-by-case basis takes time (sometimes more than the immigrants can afford to wait in order to come in legally), and it would take a lot of time (and other resources) to consider the fate of illegal immigrants on a case-by-case basis, but doesn't the dignity of each human person justify that extra trouble?
I'll freely admit I know little of immigration policy and the long-term consequences of an approach like the one I'm trying to describe. I don't know that it should even be a federal issue. Couldn't individual states deal with their own immigrants better and decide on their own what policy to enforce better than the federal government could with a blanket policy for all states? Again, someone with more knowledge on this issue is welcome to answer these questions and offer a clearer explanation of our policy in this country, its consequences and the likely consequences of a change in either direction.
November 12, 2012 at 4:07 pm
Sarah L, your ignorance is pathetic. The founding stock is very much alive. My family has been in this country since it's earliest days. And frankly, we resent like hell, uninformed statements like, "I'm more interested in increasing the number of saints in this country than in increasing those who think the way of the founding fathers did". Lady, if we don't "think the way the founding fathers did" we will lose this country to racial, ethnic, and religious groups who have no appreciation of our Christian derived Western civilization. If you naively believe your going to "make saints" of these people, I'd suggest you look at Europe. How's that "saint making" working out there?
November 12, 2012 at 4:53 pm
A few historical facts: the Cathedral of San Fernando was built in 1738. Santa Fe, New Mexico was established in 1598. San Francisco Mission was established by the Franciscans in 1774. For centuries ther has been commerce back and forth across what is now our southern border. There are families who lived under various governments without moving, eventually landing in the US because of political movements.
I have always thought we should be charitable and just in our immigration policies, though that policy never affected my family as we've been here since before 1776. One HUGE problem is "milti-cultural ism". We need to teach American history & government in English. We can do business in any language but English needs to be the official language. Our immigration policies are a disaster. They need to be realistic. Btw, I speak Spanish fluently and know of what I speak. Acting with justice and charity is right.
November 12, 2012 at 5:14 pm
I already admitted my ignorance, and I've no doubt that ignorance disqualifies me from any meaningful discussion of immigration policy for this country. I'm only suggesting that saving souls and remaining faithful to the Church Christ founded (which will outlive any nation on earth, including ours) is more important than thinking like the founding fathers. I'm saying that the measure of a citizen has more to do with how his thinking resembles God's thinking–or what we know of it from the teachings He's given us through His Church–than with how their thinking resembles that of the founding fathers.
Take a closer look at some of the saints who risked their lives to teach the Catholic faith to the Muslims. It takes God to always speak the truth in love, but the work is anything but hopeless, even if there are more martyrs than converts. And we may be among them. What greater joy is there than to live and die for God first. This is not an everlasting country.
November 12, 2012 at 6:23 pm
The immigrants pouring out of Ireland during and after the Great Famine were pretty much leaving a third world country. Many of them were notoriously shiftless– excessive drinking, loose morals, etc. It was largely the efforts of a few outspoken priests, who came over to minister to the Irish in America, that snapped them back a bit better into line.
The Irish were largely not of the "founding stock" of the nation. They arrived here speaking English only because their native tongue had been viciously driven to near extinction back home, but they certainly brought their music, dance, poetry and religion with them. Perhaps there are similarities we can draw on here in the 21st century…
November 12, 2012 at 7:09 pm
Margaret, may not have been "founding stock" but if you're trying to draw comparisons to the Mexicans, your comparisons fall flat. One the Irish knew English, the the Mexicans we got coming across the border now aren't even bothering to learn English. Two, yes the Irish priests that came over to minister to the immigrants did "snap them back a little better into line". But what are the Catholic priests today doing with the Mexicans? They're aiding and adbedding illegals in breaking our laws. Many of these poor, oppressed people are members of violent criminal gangs that have killed many Americans. Even thirty years ago, my wife's late paternal grandfather had to carry a pistol when he went outside his house in Arizona. He would have to carry a full-auto weapon today! And lastly, they can keep their poetry, dance, music, and quite frankly, their version of Catholicism ( which their morals and crime rates seem to show as non-existant) south of the border. The name of the game in the USA is assimilation. If you can't blend in, you don't belong.
November 12, 2012 at 7:29 pm
I agree with Anneg that English ought to be the primary language and that all immigrants should make the effort, if possible, to learn English–for their own good and to help future immigrants whose plight they can understand better than most. Some Catholic bishops and priests are doing what they can to teach all American citizens–recently immigrated or otherwise–the teachings of the Catholic Church. And some are not.
I know that some of the immigrants from Mexico are members of violent gangs, but not all of them are.
The American gospel of assimilation can be taken too far. Take a look at the so-called "American Catholic Church." Granted, some European countries are abandoning the Catholic faith faster than we are, but the latest election and the fact that more "Catholics" voted for Obama than for any other candidate says nothing good about the majority of voting citizens who call themselves Catholic in this country. Do we assume, though, that all American Catholics have abandoned any teachings of the Church that put them at odds with the world–that keep them from "blending in"? No, we don't. The ability to blend in doesn't make you a better citizen; the readiness to see Christ in others and to reflect His love for every soul does.
November 12, 2012 at 10:42 pm
Steve "scotju" Dalton: a great many Irishmen were members of violent criminal gangs. Admittedly, that was mostly because those of the "founding stock" enacted terrorist campaigns against them, mostly because they were Catholics.
For the rest of your remarks, last I checked, Spanish Catholicism has a much better track-record regarding "our Christian-derived Western civilization" than the "founding stock", if by that you mean Saxon Protestants. Were you under the impression Spain is not a Western country?
Mexico has persecuted the Church, but not only did Anglo America help and encourage them to do it, their fellow Saxon Protestants invented systematic terror-rape and forced famine—where did you think modern totalitarians got the idea?—in their persecution of the Church in Ireland. The Cristero War killed a few thousand Catholics; the Saxons killed as many as Pol Pot, solely for being Catholics.
The "founding stock" of this country is the occasion of about as much legitimate pride as the "founding stock" of the Ottoman Empire. Well, except Turks didn't do deliberate genocide until the 20th century (they got the idea from the English); your precious Saxon kin started doing it in the 18th.
November 12, 2012 at 11:28 pm
Steve, the whole southern border of the US has always had cross border commerce. Many of the towns on the Mexican side of the border are much larger than the US side and both sides have benefitted from that commerce, including Nogales, Az and Nogales, Sonora. The drug trade is horrible. We saw that problem coming back in the '80's but the Mexican government ignored the problem and benefitted from it. That is what we have to deal with, but never have as a national foreign policy, corruption on our southern border. It will get worse with legalized drugs here now. Those Mexicans involved in the drug trade and the coyotes involved in human trafficking are criminals and dangerous. Eventually, we will have to take them on. Condemning all Mexicans is wrong. There is lots to value in that culture. Btw one of the reasons for these problems in Az is because we have shut down movement across other border areas. Nobody used to even try to cross the Sonoran Desert. One more thing, Mexico is not a third world country. Their economy is about the 13th largest in the world. For the last 12 years I have seen some signs of improvement when the official, corrupt PRI finally lost elections. We still have to deal charitably with parents of US citizen children who lived here for years and are good citizens. Hoping for more Anglo immigrants is not going to happen. Assimilation can and we might gain a lot in the bargain.
November 13, 2012 at 12:41 am
Sarah H: The vast majority of our bishops are flaming liberals. Why do yo think Amchurch is such a freaking mess today? Why do you think we have so many problems with abortion, militant sodomy, priest abuse scandals, feminism, and, of course, migrant activism. (Actually, illegal migrant activism.) Liberalism, Sarah, liberalism.
Assimilation is absolutely necessary if you're going to become a citizen of another country. If you can't fit in, you're doomed to be isolated from the mainstream culture and become resentful of it or you will be kicked out of the country.
SF: I'm well aware that many Irishmen were members of violent gangs. So? Also to the best of my knowledge, none of own founding fathers Washington et al, persecuted the Irish. And the so-called Irish genocide was caused by incompetence and mismanagement. It's funny it took 150 years for the Irish (or some of them) to figure out it was genocide.
Your attacks on the founding stock of this country is typical leftist hate propaganda. Namely 'the white man (usually British) is the cancer of the world'nonsense. Oh, btw, I'm not a Saxon, I'm Scot-Irish.
November 13, 2012 at 1:40 am
I'm well aware that many of the bishops in this country are liberals, and many priests as well. They need our prayers, and they also need laymen of courage to stand up for the truths of the faith whatever the consequences.
And, yes, to some degree assimilation is necessary in order to function in a civil society. I'm not writing anything out of "leftist hate propaganda," and I don't think the white man is the cancer of the world. I'm part Scot-Irish but mostly French and German. English is my native language, but I also speak Spanish, though not as fluently as I used to.
I don't think anyone's trying to attack the "founding stock" of this country–though we certainly don't worship or even venerate them– but those whose families have been here since the founding of the country are no more deserving of charity and justice than those who came later. I honestly don't know how best to deal with illegal immigrants, but I hope we can implement a policy that takes the needs even of these illegals into account, since they are still human beings created by God to do His will.
November 13, 2012 at 3:06 pm
For all of you who are still so gaga over these Mexicans coming over here: http://moonbattery.com/?p=20929#comments
November 13, 2012 at 3:26 pm
Do you still want our Politico's to be Hispanderers? http://moonbattery.com/?p=20891
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