Is it too late for me to become an atheist? Do I have sign somewhere?
Pope Francis has told us that all that is needed for atheists to get to heaven is to follow their own malformed consciences.
I really wish I knew this earlier. I would have avoided a lifetime of difficult Truths in favor of my conscience.
My old unformed conscience, it turns out, was fairly forgiving of many things. That seems much easier.
It may be easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God. But it is easier still for an atheist to get to heaven.
Of course, it is possible for an atheist to get to heaven but it would seem to me that it is immensely difficult without faith and sacrament. Generalizing it as in such a way will not be interpreted correctly by most.
The Pope makes it seem simple. How many atheists do you know that
think they follow their conscience? Why believe if that is sufficient?
It is like saying “All you need to do to get to the Hall of Fame is bat .500 over a 10 year career (while blind)”
So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of jhe Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. No no, stay. Just kidding.”
September 12, 2013 at 4:50 pm
I thought he was supposed to be a smart man. This is very disappointing.
September 12, 2013 at 4:54 pm
The ship is rudderless at the moment. Listing badly.
September 12, 2013 at 4:59 pm
"…God’s mercy has no limits if you go to him with a sincere and contrite heart. The issue for those who do not believe in God is to obey their conscience."
But the second issue, assuming they do always follow their conscience is for them to "go to [God] with a sincere and contrite heart". What atheist will go to God at all? They insist He does not exist. There are none so blind as those who do not see. They will not "go to Him" in this life, and when they find themselves facing Him at the final judgment, will they then see? Or will they be blinded still by their denial?
September 12, 2013 at 5:01 pm
Read what he actually said – not the absurd spin distorting it.
September 12, 2013 at 5:20 pm
I read it. It is as clear as mud, but the implication is that even those who do not seek God will be forgiven by him. That is contrary even to Vatican II. Also, what is this the "God of the Christians" language?? Is there some other God?
Beam me up Scotty.
September 12, 2013 at 5:49 pm
Come on, Patrick. You're better than that. No need to mock the Pope.
Besides, Pope Francis offered nothing new in his quotes, merely the consistent teaching of the Church. That teaching says it's *possible*, though not necessarily likely, for non-Christians to be saved by following the dictates of their conscience.
For an almost verbatim affirmation, read paragraph 16 of the Second Vatican Council's Constitution on the Church ("Lumen Gentium"), written in 1964:
"Nor is God far distant from those who in shadows and images seek the unknown God, for it is He who gives to all men life and breath and all things, and as Saviour wills that all men be saved.Those also can attain to salvation who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, yet sincerely seek God and moved by grace strive by their deeds to do His will as it is known to them through the dictates of conscience. Nor does Divine Providence deny the helps necessary for salvation to those who, without blame on their part, have not yet arrived at an explicit knowledge of God and with His grace strive to live a good life. Whatever good or truth is found amongst them is looked upon by the Church as a preparation for the Gospel. She knows that it is given by Him who enlightens all men so that they may finally have life."
However, as noted by Ralph Martin in his recent book, "Will Many Be Saved?" (Eerdmans), we must not forget the passage immediately following the one above (note the word "often"):
"But often men, deceived by the Evil One, have become vain in their reasonings and have exchanged the truth of God for a lie, serving the creature rather than the Creator. Or some there are who, living and dying in this world without God, are exposed to final despair. Wherefore to promote the glory of God and procure the salvation of all of these, and mindful of the command of the Lord, "Preach the Gospel to every creature", the Church fosters the missions with care and attention."
What this means is that nobody–Catholic, Muslim, Jew, or atheist–will be held responsible for what they could not have known. Thus it is possible to be saved if, through no fault of your own, you fail to believe in God.
However, to the extent you are culpable for your disbelief, whether through willed ignorance or conscience choice, your salvation is in serious jeopardy.
September 12, 2013 at 5:51 pm
Perhaps we should all stop giving to Peter's Pence and instead club together and buy the Pope a copy of the Catechism.
"Sin is an offense against reason, truth, and right conscience"
The qualifying adjective 'right' is crucial and the Pope has missed it.
"Since it rejects or denies the existence of God, atheism is a sin against the first commandment."
So Atheism itself is a sin, whether or not your conscience tells you so.
"But no one is deemed to be ignorant of the principles of the moral law"
Ignorance is no excuse in this case.
"Sin committed through malice, by deliberate choice of evil, is the gravest."
Even if you are not deliberately choosing evil your atheism is still sinful.
The fruit of the Pope's dialogue is that atheists have been comforted in their denial of God and have been given a shield against the Gospel: I regularly engage my atheist friends and colleagues on the need to turn to God, they will use this as another argument against converting.
Isn't it time we started judging Francis by his fruit? With bitter offerings like this I cannot believe that he is still connected to the vine.
September 12, 2013 at 6:12 pm
For me, the pope made a big mistake in using the word "conscience".
It seems to me he does not understand the difference between conscience, which cannot be source of morality, and natural law "written in the hearts".
I feel that the pope is trying to reach anyonce, what it is good (and a duty), but he should take care of what he is renoucing (Catholic (Christ) teaching).
September 12, 2013 at 6:13 pm
The point is his letter is very murky, as is the section on the promises of God to the Jews which could be interpreted that the new covenant of Jesus does not apply to them, that we are in alliance with them while we wait for Jesus, and they wait for someone else I guess. It's clear as mud. Also a risible comment about how we didn't realize that Jesus came from the Jews until "Vatican II"? is this to be taken seriously?
I'm all for everyone being saved but he needs to write and speak more clearly. Or write less.
September 12, 2013 at 6:16 pm
By the way, good piece, Patrick.
I am not offended to you mocking the pope. Pope Francis must take care what is saying, mocking is a efficient way to say that. Just keep your heart to Christ and the Church.
September 12, 2013 at 6:17 pm
Perhaps HIs Holiness has this in mind:
Mk 9: 38-41
John said to him, "Teacher, we saw someone driving out demons in your name, and we tried to prevent him because he does not follow us."
Jesus replied, "Do not prevent him. There is no one who performs a mighty deed in my name who can at the same time speak ill of me.
For whoever is not against us is for us.
Anyone who gives you a cup of water to drink because you belong to Christ, amen, I say to you, will surely not lose his reward.
September 12, 2013 at 6:22 pm
The fact that almost weekly we find ourselves saying "I think what the Pope was trying to say…" is the problem
September 12, 2013 at 8:01 pm
No, the problem is that we find ourselves saying weekly, "This is what the media reported the Pope said, but this is what the Pope ACTUALLY said."
Same old stuff, different day.
September 12, 2013 at 6:29 pm
Brandon
I am not mocking the Pope. My commentary is directed only at his words.
September 12, 2013 at 6:37 pm
Our Pope sings from the Syllabus Songbook:
III. INDIFFERENTISM, LATITUDINARIANISM
15. Every man is free to embrace and profess that religion which, guided by the light of reason, he shall consider true. — Allocution "Maxima quidem," June 9, 1862; Damnatio "Multiplices inter," June 10, 1851.
16. Man may, in the observance of any religion whatever, find the way of eternal salvation, and arrive at eternal salvation. — Encyclical "Qui pluribus," Nov. 9, 1846.
17. Good hope at least is to be entertained of the eternal salvation of all those who are not at all in the true Church of Christ. — Encyclical "Quanto conficiamur," Aug. 10, 1863, etc.
18. Protestantism is nothing more than another form of the same true Christian religion, in which form it is given to please God equally as in the Catholic Church. — Encyclical "Noscitis," Dec. 8, 1849.
September 12, 2013 at 6:40 pm
Hebrews: But without faith it is impossible to please God. For he that cometh to God, must believe that he is, and is a rewarder to them that seek him
September 12, 2013 at 6:41 pm
“For the kingdom of heaven is like a landowner who went out early in the morning to hire workers for his vineyard. 2 He agreed to pay them a denarius[a] for the day and sent them into his vineyard.
3 “About nine in the morning he went out and saw others standing in the marketplace doing nothing. 4 He told them, ‘You also go and work in my vineyard, and I will pay you whatever is right.’ 5 So they went.
“He went out again about noon and about three in the afternoon and did the same thing. 6 About five in the afternoon he went out and found still others standing around. He asked them, ‘Why have you been standing here all day long doing nothing?’
7 “‘Because no one has hired us,’ they answered.
“He said to them, ‘You also go and work in my vineyard.’
8 “When evening came, the owner of the vineyard said to his foreman, ‘Call the workers and pay them their wages, beginning with the last ones hired and going on to the first.’
9 “The workers who were hired about five in the afternoon came and each received a denarius. 10 So when those came who were hired first, they expected to receive more. But each one of them also received a denarius. 11 When they received it, they began to grumble against the landowner. 12 ‘These who were hired last worked only one hour,’ they said, ‘and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden of the work and the heat of the day.’
13 “But he answered one of them, ‘I am not being unfair to you, friend. Didn’t you agree to work for a denarius? 14 Take your pay and go. I want to give the one who was hired last the same as I gave you. 15 Don’t I have the right to do what I want with my own money? Or are you envious because I am generous?’
16 “So the last will be first, and the first will be last.”
September 12, 2013 at 6:46 pm
http://wdtprs.com/blog/2013/09/newspapers-are-not-where-the-church-deepens-doctrine-or-changes-disciplines/
September 12, 2013 at 6:56 pm
Interesting comments. One excessively harsh and a guy named Brandon who is excessively soft.
I think the reality is in between. T extract a quote in Brandon V.'s comment about not being culpable if ya didnt know may ring true for an undiscovered tribe in the heart of the Peruvian jungle. But I expect the Bible, a Catholic Church and any number of books, media, etc detailing the saving grace of Christ. Even in a country oppressed by islam. So no. You cannot turn away from the nearly constant offer of salvation and then claim a lack of responsibility for not knowing anymore than I can claim to not know the writings of Chesterton when I have 4 unopened books on my coffee table.
It could be true, but I had every opportunity todo so. There are very few in this world who haven't heard about Christ. Although I agree the evil one has distorted his message and meaning quite effectively.
September 12, 2013 at 7:09 pm
When I was an atheist, Christianity was against my conscience…
September 12, 2013 at 7:17 pm
I think Fr. Z. explains things clearly in his blog.
Dave P.