Appearing on a talk show in Italy, Pope Francis said he hopes that hell is “empty.”
That would be nice. But it would make Jesus’ statement that it would’ve been better for Judas to never have been born a little weird. It would also make Mary’s apparition at Fatima a bit suspect.
CNA: When asked by the interviewer, Fabio Fazio, how he “imagines hell,” Pope Francis gave a short response.
“What I am going to say is not a dogma of faith but my own personal view: I like to think of hell as empty; I hope it is,” Pope Francis said.
The Catechism of the Catholic Church says that Catholic teaching “affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, ‘eternal fire.’ The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs.”
The catechism also says: “In hope, the Church prays for ‘all men to be saved.’”
Me again: Anytime the pope has to say that his opinion differs from Catholic teaching I get a little nervous. But I digress.
When the Virgin Mary appeared to the three children at Fatima she gave them a vision of Hell. Lucia recounted it this way:
“As Our Lady spoke these last words, she opened her hands once more, as she had done during the two previous months. The rays of light seemed to penetrate the earth, and we saw as it were a sea of fire. Plunged in this fire were demons and souls in human form, like transparent burning embers, all blackened or burnished bronze, floating about in the conflagration, now raised into the air by the flames that issued from within themselves together with great clouds of smoke now falling back on every side like sparks in huge fires, without weight or equilibrium, amid shrieks and groans of pain and despair, which horrified us and made us tremble with fear. (It must have been this sight which caused me to cry out, as people say they heard me). The demons could be distinguished by their terrifying and repellent likeness to frightful and unknown animals, black and transparent like burning coals. Terrified and as if to plead for succour, we looked up at Our Lady, who said to us, so kindly and so sadly: You have seen hell where the souls of poor sinners go. To save them, God wishes to establish in the world devotion to my Immaculate Heart. If what I say to you is done, many souls will be saved and there will be peace.”
Was the Virgin Mary lying? Pranking the children? Scaring them for no reason?
Look. I get it. Hell is a very difficult concept to wrap one’s mind around. Everlasting torment boggles the mind and frightens the soul. I would also “hope” that such a place would be empty but I’ve read the Bible, I know what Jesus said, and I’ve paid attention to the words of the Virgin Mary.
It might help people sleep at night to think Hell is empty but many of these people who espouse this belief are supposed to be acting as our shepherds. A shepherd who fears for his sheep is ever vigilant while one who “hopes” there is no real danger may fall asleep.
How many of our shepherds are fast asleep while the wolves prowl about?
January 17, 2024 at 4:12 pm
I will paraphrase the line of dialogue in a famous old film:
‘ Wishin’ ain’t gittin’.
January 17, 2024 at 4:14 pm
You realize that Pipe Francis has spoken many times about Hell, correct? It showed up in one of his first addresses to the people as well as other times. He is allowed to have his own opinion even if it differs from your own.
January 17, 2024 at 6:55 pm
I, on the other hand, hope that Hell is chock full of people who look, think, and act like you, you old fraud. God’s mercy is temporary, to give people a chance to repent and reform. His justice is forever.
January 17, 2024 at 8:04 pm
if we consider the statement by Lucia, as you quoted…”You have seen hell where the souls of poor sinners go. To save them, God wishes to establish in the world devotion to my Immaculate Heart. ”
The key words are “to save them…”
This quote suggests that it is possible to save them. Presumably, saving means the same thing then as it does now (i.e. not remain in that hellish state). Therefore, due to the devotion to the IHM, it is possible those souls they saw in the hell they were shown are saved. Would hell be empty then? Would it simply have more souls that we need to pray for? A lot of questions, none of which people want to contemplate over a quick and easy universalist answer.
January 18, 2024 at 6:11 am
”You have seen hell where the souls of poor sinners go. To save them, God wishes to establish in the world devotion to my Immaculate Heart. ”
It is not the souls in hell that are ‘saved’ but the poor sinners who are bound to hell are the ones that will be save unless they do not change their ways and continue down the hellish path. One cannot leave hell once there. If in purgatory you are saved but cannot enter heaven without a certain time of purging the soul. You can leave purgatory but not hell.
January 18, 2024 at 12:23 am
Of all people, it was Christopher Hitchins who told the joke I’ll paraphrase:
A priest died and arrived at Heaven’s gate. St. Peter welcomed him in, but the priest hesitated. He said, “Wouldn’t I be better employed ministering to the poor souls in Hell?”
St. Peter grinned and said, “You don’t get it, do you?”
January 18, 2024 at 7:31 am
From the article: “The catechism also says: “In hope, the Church prays for ‘all men to be saved.’”
Does God place within our hearts the desire to hope for that which cannot be attained? While we are not free to assume that hell is empty, it would seem, in view of this catechetical teaching, that we can entertain the hope and pray for its realization. Why else would we be encouraged to pray for “all men to be saved”? Would God encourage us to pray for that which cannot possibly happen?
January 18, 2024 at 11:16 am
It’s pretty bad when the people who are entrusted with our souls and our teaching doubt what they are teaching. And it is certainly not limited to PF.
I belong to a Third Order Franciscan fraternity (TOF, not OFS) – part of the lay arm of the Franciscan family. A deacon from my parish entered formation. As part of his formation class, he was assigned to write a paper on heaven and hell and to teach the other students about it, while the formation team monitored. After a rather poorly written paper (large font, double-spaced, less than one page), he stated that he did not believe hell exists because God is not capable of such cruelty. (Mind you, this is a product of our Diocesan seminary, which has thankfully been brought up to higher standards over the last 10 years or so.)
Shocked, I countered that this would be news to the children of Fatima, who had witnessed the horrors of hell.
Then, Deacon went on to say, on the subject of the Sacraments, that Mexican immigrants, who account for a sizeable portion of the parish he ministers, were very lax about the Sacrament of Marriage and that most live in common-law marriages. Our fraternity minister (i.e., the president of our fraternity) and his wife are Mexican immigrants, as is my Goddaughter. Our fraternity minister sat there, shocked. I responded that the vast majority of the Mexican Catholics I know are devout and practice our Faith with great obedience and reverence.
Needless to say, Deacon did not make it through Formation.
It is an uphill battle we must fight, because the doubters and incompetent are in charge to a large extent. But God is in charge and will not abandon us.
January 19, 2024 at 5:42 pm
First off, the Marian apparition at Fatima is private revelation. As such, the faithful are not obliged to believe in this apparition or anything that was told to the children. That said, I think her words could be compatible with there being no human souls in hell. Were they being shown what actually is presently, a vision of the actual future, or a vision of what could possibly be?
January 20, 2024 at 8:12 pm
Losing one’s life in this world is about as bad as it gets. But Jesus said in discussing the fate of those who harm children that it would be better for them that they were never born! Or that a mill stone shouid be tied around their necks before they were thrown into the sea. Hell may be worse. But some sins certainly have very unpleasant consequences.