Atheists are pushing for the military to have chaplains for atheists in the military. Uhm, we already have them. They’re called chaplains. An atheist has as much right to go see a chaplain as anyone else.
If an atheist wants an atheist to talk to, they’re called psychologists or counselors.
The NY Times reports:
In the military, there are more than 3,000 chaplains who minister to the spiritual and emotional needs of active duty troops, regardless of their faiths. The vast majority are Christians, a few are Jews or Muslims, one is a Buddhist. A Hindu, possibly even a Wiccan may join their ranks soon.
But an atheist?
Strange as it sounds, groups representing atheists and secular humanists are pushing for the appointment of one of their own to the chaplaincy, hoping to give voice to what they say is a large — and largely underground — population of nonbelievers in the military.
Joining the chaplain corps is part of a broader campaign by atheists to win official acceptance in the military. Such recognition would make it easier for them to raise money and meet on military bases. It would help ensure that chaplains, religious or atheist, would distribute their literature, advertise their events and advocate for them with commanders.
But winning the appointment of an atheist chaplain will require support from senior chaplains, a tall order. Many chaplains are skeptical: Do atheists belong to a “faith group,” a requirement for a chaplain candidate? Can they provide support to religious troops of all faiths, a fundamental responsibility for chaplains?
As to the question of whether atheism is a “faith group” I would say that it takes a great amount of faith to be an atheist. Believing that the entire universe and every human being who ever lived was just a random act of crazy chance takes an enormous amount of faith. But it doesn’t deserve a chaplaincy. This kind of foolish chase after some sort of elusive equality only seeks to make all things unintelligible. Words mean things. Chaplains are clergy. To expand the definition to atheism thins out the meaning of the word to non-existence.
Secularists are doing it with marriage. Marriage is between a man and a woman. But some don’t want to get married to the opposite sex so they want to expand the term and the institution into meaninglessness.
If the military accedes to this atheist chaplaincy request, it wouldn’t be expanding the use of chaplains, it would make it the entire institution meaningless. But isn’t that what atheists are all about -meaninglessness?
April 27, 2011 at 6:52 pm
your first words are so true- and this is a criticism against chaplains- they don't try to convert people- my Byzantine Catholic priest (with bi-ritual faculties for this archdiocese)husband- a board-certified hospital chaplain at a Catholic hospital can minister to all religions (in a social worker-counselor-spiritual father kid of way). of course, he is available to help people become Catholic if they desire it- but that isn't the point of chaplaincy
April 27, 2011 at 7:35 pm
They want what they have in the Netherlands: "humanist" chaplains. Harvard has one, why not the military? http://www.harvardhumanist.org/
Once they're in the military, they can get into schools, hospitals, government offices, etc., and then, with the help of our communist..er, I mean, "community organizing" president (if he's re-elected) we can chuck God right out of the country and become that grand "utopia".
April 27, 2011 at 8:24 pm
When your country has a military of all faith groups – that country also has the responsibility to respect the religious views of everyone, even if they are a minority. While you all may have a religious view of "X," I may have a religious preference of "Y." And if the "Y" group has a significant amount of followers (an upwards of 23% by some estimates), it only makes sense that the military provide accommodation to all those who have a preference for "Y." The military fights for our constitution, and also something within called the first amendment.
April 27, 2011 at 9:41 pm
At least atheists are finally admitting to being a religion, even tacitly.
April 27, 2011 at 9:51 pm
This is far less tragic than having homos among the troops, but is very amusing nevertheless.
I was always of the opinion, though, that those with a faith have, at least as a starting point, better **instruments** to be good soldiers.
If you think that when you die everything is gone, you'll never going to see the ones you love again, & Co. this is not a grand encouragement for good soldiery, much less heroism.
On the other hand, faith in an otherworldly glory after death in battle has always been an important motivating factors for many armies; the crusaders, the Arabs sweeping Northern Africa in the VII century, the Wehrmacht soldiers with "Gott mit Uns" written on their belts, are all examples.
Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori, says the motto.
Methinks, it works much better if one believes in another world after this.
Mundabor
April 27, 2011 at 11:02 pm
"faith in an otherworldly glory after death in battle has always been an important motivating factors for many armies"
You forgot suicide bombers and the people who perpetrated 9/11. Believing in the next world more than this world is what always gets us into trouble, especially since there's no evidence for any "next world."
April 28, 2011 at 1:41 am
I don't fully understand what an atheist chaplain would do.
I mean, for a soldier to go to a priest or minister or rabbi, isn't it usual about the state of their soul?
And atheists don't believe in souls.
So, what would an atheist soldier say to an atheist chaplain?
"Sir, can you confirm my belief in nothing again, as I feel my faith is wavering?"
Since we have atheists on the board already, maybe you can help me out here. What would an atheist soldier say to and atheist chaplain and vice versa?
April 28, 2011 at 2:43 am
Anonymous said…
"At least atheists are finally admitting to being a religion, even tacitly."
That is so very true!
April 28, 2011 at 2:57 am
There are no atheists in foxholes.
April 28, 2011 at 3:08 am
A Chaplin acts as more than a religious authority/provider in today's military. They are one of the few people you can see in a truly confidential manner (e.g. what you tell them can't end up in your medical records, as what you tell a psychiatrist can) and few people, if anyone, will raise an eyebrow at a troup asking to see a Chaplin.
A troup can talk to the Chaplin about concerns they have without making it a matter of official record or hurting morale (e.g. "Hey, my commander said/did X, is that a problem").
I'm not saying that I think we need atheist or humanist Chaplins. I don't know. But I know that I have greatly appreciated being able to turn to the Chaplin, regardless of his faith. Chalplins of a variety of faiths have always done their best to provide appropriate ministry to me as a Catholic.
April 28, 2011 at 3:20 am
Faith is a gift from God, the same Creator who endowed our unalienable civil rights to Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness, so eloquently inscribed in The Declaration of Independence, the document upon which is based our Constitution and the First Amendment to be free to exercise our free will to worship, to speak, to write, and to peaceably assemble and to petition government if there is some abrogation of our freedom to exercise our free will as free men. Government gives us a birth certificate. God gives us existence.
Religion is man’s unalienable civil right to respond to the gift of faith from God in love, acknowledgment and service to man through our Creator, God.
Atheism automatically denies all persons the unalienable civil right to acknowledge our Creator and to serve almighty God in our bodies and in our souls and in our government. The imposition of atheism among people denies man’s unalienable civil rights endowed by our Creator, man’s sovereign personhood through which a person constitutes our sovereign nation, man’s conscience to choose and free will to consent through which civilization comes into being for the common good by the consent of the governed.
Science so often used to prove that there is no need for God, does not and cannot explain existence. Science can only observe and document existence, that which is created. The Supreme Sovereign Being, the uncreated source of all being is WHO is. The atheist will demand co-existence but will not concede that co-existence is predicated on existence, existence the atheist refuses to acknowledge, for himself and for his neighbors.
If the atheist refuses to acknowledge my existence, my taxes may not be used to fund his uncharitable, unpatriotic and contumacious ignorance.
April 28, 2011 at 4:47 am
Mary, your premise fails to address the right of each military individual the free exercise of religion (or lack thereof) within the military. If you reference the most recent demographics of the military (http://www.militaryatheists.org/resources/MAAF%20DoD%20Demo%202010.pdf), you will see that 27.7% of the military identifies itself as nontheist to include atheists, agnostics, freethinkers, skeptics, humanists, etc. What you will not see however, is ANY representation of this percentage within the military chaplain corps itself. As such, this significant minority does deserve recognition and support. You will even find that the Jewish segment of the military is even smaller than that of nontheists – yet the military still has Jewish Rabbis serving. The humanist chaplaincy is seeking to provide ultimate support for this minority to INCLUDE atheists, agnostics, humanists, etc, etc.
Please try to use rational thought supported with evidence to prove your points, not personal religious beliefs of convictions. You can also reference the first amendment if you get lost along the way.
April 28, 2011 at 4:53 am
As I lay me down to sleep the thought occured to me: If the atheist wants to sign on to the Communist Manifesto or Mein Kampf (sp)let him. After Madalyn Murray O'Hair ruined our society she traveled to the USSR where she thought she would be welcomed with open arms and a hero's parade, but USSR refused to let the atheist in, made her wait two weeks outside befopre she quit and returned to the United States, the only country who would let her wreck such havoc on our culture as to deny the Person of God civil rights in the public domain. When One Person is denied civil rights ALL persons are denied civil rights, starting with the atheist, who having denied everybody's civil right to speak to God in public, as though the state owned the public school teachers, body and soul, may have repudiated his own civil right to speaking to anybody whose civil rights he denies, who includes everybody. Now. I lay me down to sleep…. that is to say, the atheist has no legal standing in a court of law in America. NOW..
April 28, 2011 at 4:56 am
@Mouse
I've never served, but I suppose if I did, I'd like an atheist chaplain, perhaps to help me make sense of conflicting emotions, help me get a grasp on reality. I think we could all use a go-to person that understands our worldview.
@Joan
Repeating something doesn't make it true.
April 28, 2011 at 4:59 am
@thornman: The First Amendment to our Constitution is based on the founding Principles in our Declaration of Independence that clearly identifies our Creator as the endower of any and all rights. Those who repudiate our unalienable civil rights repudiate their own unalienable civil rights in our FAIR land.
April 28, 2011 at 5:00 am
"At least atheists are finally admitting to being a religion, even tacitly."
I don't understand this need to label atheism a religion. Is there also a religion that corresponds to non-belief in fairies, of which most of you are active members? I suppose you are all also members of the religion that disbelieves in Goblins & Trolls.
April 28, 2011 at 5:05 am
@Mary
"After Madalyn Murray O'Hair ruined our society"
&
"the atheist has no legal standing in a court of law in America."
Ummmmm what? Are you alluding to some dire future or something? This country was founded on secular principals, which is what atheists like the FFRF are trying to maintain. Secular means no particular group is special – all people are equal. Isn't that something we should all support?
April 28, 2011 at 5:05 am
@mouse a go to person is a WHO not a "that". The correlative pronoun "that" is not acceptable to address another person. Respect the dignity of the human being as opposed to the furniture upon which you may be sitting.
April 28, 2011 at 5:13 am
TastyPaper: If all people are equal, a self-evident truth, WE all hold, Why cannot the people pray in public? In Engel v. Vitale, the Supreme Court said or rather told the atheist, Madaly Murray O'Hair she could "go her own way" The newspapers bannered PRAYER BAN. Last I read this is called mob mentality and rule by anarchy. So, all that patronizing talk by secular humanists is not worth a damned because when push comes to shove they take what they want. All civil rights are held in trust for all citizens by Almighty God, by their parents and by the State. The state is last, in that order.
April 28, 2011 at 5:14 am
Mary, as the first amendment clearly states, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof…" While the Declaration of Independence does mention a creator, it does not refer to a christian god any more than it does allah, shiva, buddha, or the ancient jupiter for that matter.
Your argumentum ad antiquitatem about all atheists being communists is an obvious fallacy. Again, I encourage you to use critical thinking in formulating your arguments. You are inferring that Lance Armstrong, Carl Sagan, Seth MacFarlane, Winston Churchill, and Stephen Hawking are all communists who hate America strictly because they do not personally believe in your god.
Those in the military swear an oath to defend the constitution, not the declaration of independence. Please get your facts straight.