Atheists are pushing for the military to have chaplains for atheists in the military. Uhm, we already have them. They’re called chaplains. An atheist has as much right to go see a chaplain as anyone else.
If an atheist wants an atheist to talk to, they’re called psychologists or counselors.
The NY Times reports:
In the military, there are more than 3,000 chaplains who minister to the spiritual and emotional needs of active duty troops, regardless of their faiths. The vast majority are Christians, a few are Jews or Muslims, one is a Buddhist. A Hindu, possibly even a Wiccan may join their ranks soon.
But an atheist?
Strange as it sounds, groups representing atheists and secular humanists are pushing for the appointment of one of their own to the chaplaincy, hoping to give voice to what they say is a large — and largely underground — population of nonbelievers in the military.
Joining the chaplain corps is part of a broader campaign by atheists to win official acceptance in the military. Such recognition would make it easier for them to raise money and meet on military bases. It would help ensure that chaplains, religious or atheist, would distribute their literature, advertise their events and advocate for them with commanders.
But winning the appointment of an atheist chaplain will require support from senior chaplains, a tall order. Many chaplains are skeptical: Do atheists belong to a “faith group,” a requirement for a chaplain candidate? Can they provide support to religious troops of all faiths, a fundamental responsibility for chaplains?
As to the question of whether atheism is a “faith group” I would say that it takes a great amount of faith to be an atheist. Believing that the entire universe and every human being who ever lived was just a random act of crazy chance takes an enormous amount of faith. But it doesn’t deserve a chaplaincy. This kind of foolish chase after some sort of elusive equality only seeks to make all things unintelligible. Words mean things. Chaplains are clergy. To expand the definition to atheism thins out the meaning of the word to non-existence.
Secularists are doing it with marriage. Marriage is between a man and a woman. But some don’t want to get married to the opposite sex so they want to expand the term and the institution into meaninglessness.
If the military accedes to this atheist chaplaincy request, it wouldn’t be expanding the use of chaplains, it would make it the entire institution meaningless. But isn’t that what atheists are all about -meaninglessness?
April 28, 2011 at 5:27 am
Last I checked, when a person enters a courtroom he swears to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, on his honor. Repudiating everyone's civil rights to speak to God, and to assemble peaceable to acknowedge God is not very honorable. Everything else is perjury in a court of law. Pornagraphy, the lie about human virginity is a lie abour human sexuality, and does not qualify as free speech. Only truth has freedom to speak. Denying the existence of God to Persons adjudicating the perfect Justice of God, (man is not capable of perfect Justice) rings hollow. The TRUTH will set you free.
April 28, 2011 at 5:30 am
"If all people are equal, a self-evident truth, WE all hold, Why cannot the people pray in public?"
You can. I can't see your profile, so maybe you don't live in the United States, but if you do, you can pray anywhere you want to. What you can't do is mandate prayer from a government platform, such as broadcasting a prayer at a public school. However, every individual student is free to say their own prayers to the deity of their choosing.
"So, all that patronizing talk by secular humanists is not worth a damned because when push comes to shove they take what they want."
Non-sequitor. Do you know what a secular humanist is?
April 28, 2011 at 5:40 am
"…or prohibiting the free exercise thereof". Why cannot the people pray in the public domain that is held in joint and common tenancy by each and every citizen? Is this the USSR or the gulag or communist (here insert your own place). The Declaration of Independence capitalizes the word "Creator" and so should you. Oh Yes, and please do explain your existence to me without the Supreme Sovereign Being, the unmoved Mover, the First Principle, Whose Name is "I AM WHO I AM"
April 28, 2011 at 5:46 am
A secular humanist is a human being who cannot bring himself to thank God for himself, for his time in this world and for the people around him.
April 28, 2011 at 5:54 am
Tastypaper, the government claims all platforms as it own. Government in and of itself cannot own anything as all is held in joint and common tenancy by each and every citizen. You own it all and I own it all. So, why can't football players pray before a game? Is it because government owns the field? the next sentence is censored.
April 28, 2011 at 6:10 am
Albert Einstein believed in God, Michael Farraday, Nicola Tesla, Gregor Mendel, that French scientist who developed a cure for rabies prayed the rosary daily, Madame Curie and all those miners who came out alive after being trapped in the mine in Chile for a month, and that Jewish lady who discovered nuclear fision, Lisa Mitner.
April 28, 2011 at 9:14 am
Mary, you fail to address any of my points or present any cohesive argument on your behalf as to why atheist/humanist chaplains should not represent 27.7% of our current military members. I feel sorry that you are blinded by your own faith so much that it prevents your from displaying any sort of tolerance towards others. It's disconcerting that you are so militant in your views that you are unwilling to accept differing views and opinions, and this is precisely what our founding fathers intended to guard against in the government domain. As I stress, an argument requires evidence and NOT your own opinion to support a valid conclusion. Please educate yourself Mary – I don't have any more time to waste doing so…
April 28, 2011 at 10:32 am
"You forgot suicide bombers and the people who perpetrated 9/11".
On the contrary, I think they prove my point. I never said that the motivation given by faith must perforce be good, as my example of the Wehrmacht soldiers shows.
Mundabor
April 28, 2011 at 12:14 pm
@ Tastypaper,
Thanks for the response. I guess I was just a little confused. I mean, all the religions who do have chaplains are already organized religions with religious figures they can "plug-in" to the chaplaincy. And, from what I can tell, even if your denomination or even faith, isn't represented, you can go to whoever is there. How would you determine what makes a person a candidate for an atheist chaplaincy, since you don't already have an organized heirarchy?
April 28, 2011 at 4:36 pm
Saying atheism is a faith group is like saying bald is a hair color.
April 28, 2011 at 6:05 pm
@Mouse,
See the thing is, atheism isn't a faith, and a Christian or even non-denominational religious person would not be able to help someone who is a materialist. Maybe trying to find specificity is the problem, a secular counselor rather than a chaplain, could benefit all, rather than most.
In regards to choosing an atheist chaplain, I would say that anyone who claims to be atheist would fit the bill, we wouldn't need a hierarchy because each of us is seeking truth in the same way, rather than receiving truth handed down from a higher source.
April 28, 2011 at 7:04 pm
@ TastyPaper, I get that you need someone to talk to, especially in such a high-stress assignment as a combat zone. But, if you aren't specifically going to talk to someone about belief, a couselor, as you say sounds like someone who would fit the bill. But I was under the impression that the military already had counselors and psychiatrists available. Wouldn't one of them suit your purposes, if we were to make sure one of the existing ones were atheists? Given the prevalence those who are, so to speak, like you in that respect in those fields, that seems the most reasonable option, doesn't it?
I was under the impression that a chaplain's job was to fill in the blanks that a counselor could not. If this is the case, don't you already basically have someone filling the job an atheist chaplain would fill? Why would there be a need for redundancy in this area?
I'm not baiting you, by the way. I enjoy civil discourse with those whose belief systems I don't share. I think mutual understanding is the basis for a harmonious society.
April 28, 2011 at 8:01 pm
“I thank God for you” is shortened to: “Thank you”. Our nation is not founded on religious principles, rather, our nation is founded on the FAITH given to us by God, a Faith embraced by some and rejected by others. The atheist has no legal standing to reject the Faith of our Fathers in a court of law.
Jesus Christ said: “He who hates his brother is a murderer.” Not allowing another person the unalienable rights endowed by OUR CREATOR is “hate speech”. Not allowing the blessing of Liberty to ourselves and our posterity is “hate speech”. Not allowing the protection of "Divine Providence" to bring peace to our nation is "hate speech" and fomenting war, as in treason.
@thornman: What part of "WE" hold these truths to be self-evident, I repeat: What part of "WE" are you not?
April 28, 2011 at 8:18 pm
fyi- minimum qualifications to be a board certified chaplain at a hospital (of course military might be different- A master's degree, an internship at a CPE teaching hospital and a full-time residency at a CPE teaching hospital (up to a year) and also endorsement by one's faith group- once again- a Catholic or Protestant or Jewish chaplain (these are the only groups that have established certification processes)is trained to minister to all faith groups, so an atheist would be cared for (in a psychological/social worker/confidential helper kind of way) and would not be pressured to convert. This is why some hard-core religious people don't like chaplains!
April 28, 2011 at 8:26 pm
@Mouse
I don't feel baited, I'm enjoying this discussion as well
I would ask whether the already present counselors/psychiatrists are present in the field as a chaplain would be. I guess what I'm saying is, I need an atheist chaplain in foxholes to help the atheists in foxholes.
April 28, 2011 at 8:48 pm
@TastyPaper,
But if the atheists are already in the foxholes, why do you need another atheist in the foxholes? How many atheists can even fit in a foxhole? 😉
April 28, 2011 at 9:48 pm
Thornman: You have called our Declaration of Independence "antiquated", although the War of Revolution was fought for the Declaration of Independence and men died, you dismiss their sacrifice, you have urged me to become educated (ad Hominem) and you talk about tolerance? Please explain your existence. Steven Hawkings says the law of gravity brought him into existence, this might account for his personal magnetism, but it does not explain where the law of gravity originated. If you cannot explain your existence you ought to be truthful enough to admit it.
April 28, 2011 at 11:03 pm
Mary, Stephen Hawking also says "Science makes God unnecessary."
April 28, 2011 at 11:12 pm
I can explain my existence:
The DNA that formed in the organic soup of the primordial world evolved through natural processes to conjure beings who joined together to give birth to a pattern that capitulates the organic structure that constitutes what I refer to as me, and a host of trillions of micro organisms, and will sustain in a similar fashion until the DNA breaks down, given that the right building materials and fuel is persistently supplied.
April 28, 2011 at 11:30 pm
TastyPaper, since you're here and we can cordially discuss stuff, I've got a question for you.
I've never heard a atheist or scientist able to explain to me, in a way that I understood and that didn't seem rather silly, how non-life became life. It's never been accomplished in a lab or observed that non-life can become life. How does that work?
Can you give me that explanation?
It's one of things that ties me to religion. Scientifically, I just don't get it.